Playable female characters

This is the key problem, unless you want an incredibly generic, bland, one-size-fits-all environment. Unless you were to make it the Disney Theme Park version of the Middle Ages, a female character would face:

  • The Holy Roman Empire had VERY strictly defined gender roles in society. While England and, perhaps, France were to varying degrees more egalitarian (and even then bear in mind we’re only talking by comparison to the HRE), with both England and France allowing women to be appointed to the various orders of Chivalry, the HRE was much more restrictive. In fact it was outright ILLEGAL for a respectable woman to visit a tavern without a male escort, usually her husband (in other words, a woman by herself at a tavern would likely be assumed to be a prostitute). It goes both ways, of course. Brewing was considered a woman’s profession during this time, so outside of monasteries it would be extraordinarily rare to see a male brewer.

  • A woman ignoring these gender roles would face SIGNIFICANT hostility. And not just from men, but from other women, as well. While in our 21st century culture we (mostly) believe that anyone can be who and what they want, regardless of their gender or income level, this was NOT the case in Medieval Europe. Who and what you could be were strictly defined by both your social class and gender, and someone who ignored that was very literally upsetting the “natural order” of society. People view that as threatening and dangerous, and they WILL respond negatively, if not violently.

  • Wrath of the Church. While much of what happened to Joan d’Arc was politically-motivated, and even AT THE TIME it was outright acknowledged to be a miscarriage of justice (so that’s saying a lot when you consider the justice standards of the day), the Church itself enforced those gender restrictions. A woman dressing like a man – specifically, wearing PANTS – actually WAS considered heresy. To say nothing of a woman going around doing “men’s work.” So yeah, the Church wouldn’t exactly look too kindly on “Henrietta.” Especially because unlike the average townsperson who might stop at hurling garbage and insults, the Church has the actual LEGAL authority for far harsher measures…

Of course, the Church DID have a loophole: Women WERE permitted to dress in men’s fashion in appropriate situations. So a woman that does a lot of traveling (like your generic fantasy sword-swinging adventuress) might be given dispensation for pants, because wearing a dress might be impractical on the road (using d’Arc as an example, she was allowed to dress in men’s fashion while imprisoned because the guards were raping her when she was wearing dresses, and pants offered her better protection). But that mostly means that while a female could still be prosecuted for violating social conventions by serving in the army, the Church just wouldn’t add charges for wearing pants on top of it.

In other words, while it’s not IMPOSSIBLE for a female character to be made to work in this story, for it to be in ANY way realistic would basically require an entirely different set of character interactions (for that matter, she might need TWO sets of interactions if you want to have different reactions depending on how a female approaches another character. IE, dressing in men’s fashion might provoke hostility, while dresses may yield a more positive reaction).

COUGH

http://www.bowlore.com/0.02_0.04_0.02_0_308_409_csupload_49612398.jpg

Depiction of a woman from the I.33 manuscript. I’m not sure if she’s intended to be the master or the student on these folios (possibly the latter, as the teacher is almost universally rendered as a priest or monk), but regardless it’s a VERY clear indication that women of at least some social classes DID receive formal training at arms.

We also know from medieval drawings that knights fought giant snail creatures. :smiley:

Please don’t go Lars Anderson on us. One single picture is not proof of anything and could be down right inaccurate.

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possible explanation might be training for trial by combat

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They also knew how to end each other rightly!

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We have no idea why she is in I.33… one guess is that she is the patron of the Church or monastery that made the book… Ordinary priest do not fight… but the teacher is one in the book.
Why?

Personally I don’t find it totally unthinkable that some females did receive some sort of training… for self defense.
And Talhoffer tell us that females could train for legal duels… but that is something different.

But even if you know how to use a sword and buckler, that is not the same as you knowing how to fight as heavy cavalry on a battlefield or doing so.

so I.33 is not evidence of anything in this regard.

Was the story of the Nibelungs known the time the picture was made? Maybe referring to Brunhild …
I’d love to play as a woman but certainly not the main storyline. You’d need a network of own storylines and the fighting would be at most with farmer’s tools; but maybe local politics, intrigues, going ways around to achieve your goal … this stuff. Being a woman alone would bring up challenges you usually don’t have in the typical RPG, which makes it very interesting.
For the fighting part … I mean, come on. There were even punishments for men who let themselves beat by their wives. It’s pretty unlikely that even one was allowed to touch a sword, no matter how tough she was … The whole culture and religion would deem a woman crazy which tried to act or even cloth like a man and almost all the tales you hear (like Pope Joan) are fictional.
Anyways, I don’t think it’s in the scale of that project. I want to have it in a few years or as dlc or something but I want it done right.

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I had an idea that could be interesting to deal with the fact that we don’t have female player characters.

First solution is a simple mod like Alternate Life in Skyrim whereupon you can choose to play a different character than henry and not follow the main story line

Second one is a more amibitious one that would need a bigger mod team. I was thinking it could be pretty fun to make a mod where you play as Joan of Arc. Historical and such and it would allow female gamers to get into the game a bit more.

I have a friend ou was interested in playing Kingdom Come until she heard that you can’t play a female character. So i am kind of bummed for her x)

(Maybe this has been tackled already i didn’t read through the entire thread)

I dont know. This arguments sounds me like “Im not gonna read this book until they rewrite it so the main character will look like me”

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Well i can understand what you mean but this isn’t a book. Sure we are following Henry’s story but we are also taking decisions for him. It’s an open world where we are free to follow the story or not

Think Mass Effect. There you play as Commander Sheperd and he is definitely male.

The comparison to a book is not entirely out of place. You don’t control the reactions and actions of NPC and based on era the reaction to have semblance of realism have to be different for females than for males (@Ambaryerno explained above quite detailed reasons why).
Lot of the games where you can choose gender of your character feel stilted to me, because the NPC reactions to both genders are same and in this game I think it would be especially bad if the gender of the protagonist was ignored by NPCs.

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Mass Effect isn’t the perfect example because that game is built with a female sheppard in mind aswell. I’m not saying they should take more time to develop a female storyline i just feel it could have been more appealing is all.

actually there is a prologue where you play as a female character.

and how do you know it’s not going to be appealing? because there likely won’t be combat for that character?

fact is, if they were to expand the game to have a free-roam female character, the most exciting thing she would be able to do would be to get herself involved in a judicial duel where she clobbers her husband over the head with a rock in a sack. that’s not compelling game play for most people. i might have fun with it, but i bet the female audience of the game would shrink even more if that’s the level of excitement of the game.

having a female player in medieval times is like playing as a passenger in a flight simulator. there might be a new perspective, and some different tasks, but there is a lot less control and lot of possibilities are off limits. that’s why having a female player as secondary makes sense, you would not want to go through the entire game with such a narrow and limited impact.

i’m pretty sure modding a female for free roam would be possible, but you’ll have tons of options shaved off. it’ll essentially be like a walking simulator. that’s a pretty popular genre among females anyway.

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NEVER say like that!

As a woman, I don’t think that a female protahonist would be remotely realistic or historically correct, I think that the prevalence of female “warriors” is greately overplayed by people who’d like an “optimistic” version of history, the truth is that women were pregnant or lactating for most of their adules life, that doesn’t leave room for many female hero, even in the equality paradise of the Vikings, were the nimber of female worriors has been worringly overplayed…most women, even if they’d be trained, wouldn’t be able to carry the armors and weapons that even the skinnist knight was required to carry into battle, especially in a time where meat, proteins, and gyms weren’t widely available, and ones strengt was controlled almost entirely by genetics.

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you are very wrong about the ability to carry armour. A proper medieval suit of plate weigh 25-30kg… less than what a modern NATO infantry soldier carry on foot patrol…
And a sword about 1-1½kg.

I know plenty of women who own and fight in armour… and some women who served as infantry in Afghanistan.
(Or combat engineers… A job even more dangerous… since you are the one in front doing the sweeping for IEDs)

Sure strength is useful, but no matter how strong you are, you are not going to cut true plate armour with a sword.

What food your get was very much dependent on who you where. A noble godt good foot, a peasant not so much.,
There is zero physical or biological reason that a noblewoman could not learning how to fight and live the life of a knight (man-at-arms)
But plenty of cultural reasons.

Sure the average noblewoman would be at a clear disadvantage against the average male… but I would argue that knights was not the average person in the first place.

Iam not arguing for female knights… but it was cultural that blocked the women from this profession… not biolegy.

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For a female Playable Character Mod, you need a voice replacement for Henry! XD

Or you could make her look like this:

:smiley:

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Warhorse, what happens now that you have confirmed a female character as that was one of the strech goals, will you talk more about her soon? how many missions we will play? or…really anything about her? or will that only be talked about at a later date, close to release?

We already know what is going to happen in regards to that one. She will star in a side quest or series of side quests where she will be rescuing Henry in the beginning of the game.

Yes, we will talk about her in a late stage of development. For sure we already know what will happen, but we don´t want to spoil it yet. :wink:

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