Realism, How far should it be taken

Story & Setting
#278

No i dont think that would be crossing the line its war so horrible things should and probably will be in the game.

This game is about a country at war so it would make sense to have entire villages being slaughtered and you coming across at least a few times in the game.

I dont think i explained correctly what i meant was would the people who pillaged the village pile all the bodies up in a sick pile and put a flag on it to demoralize and strike fear into anyone who came across it not as a way of cleaning up but as a fear factor kind of thing.

#279

no that would take to long . better and quicker to torch the place and leave the bodies where they fell.

i will be murdering villages for sure though :smile:

1 Like
#280

#281

Why would you do that? Itā€™s a lot of work, and unnecessarily devil-ish. Pillaging has laways happened for two reasons. You make example of the people because of their allegiance and/or you are there to steal/destroy goods with or without giving your men the freedom to do what they desire.

#282

Well i think it was genghis khan who missed his homeland and remembered there was a mountain that he liked so he ordered his man to make him a mountain out of china men. Just forget i said anything about body piles.

#283

Because you can. I spent many hours playing Fallout3, Fallout New Vegas, Oblivion and Skyrim killing the mass populations and tediously piling their bodies up (and then using a grenade or Destruction spell to blast the Heap) and admiring my dirty work.

Yeah its a little disturbing, but its better to take those urges out on AI in my opinion.

which does beg the Question will we be able to drag Corpses?

1 Like
#284

nothing better than a wall of bodies to warn off your foes

#285

I love to cover my walls with them for heat insulation. Itā€™s cheaper than the styrofoam and more aesthetic!

1 Like
#286

you = historical pillager, not player

2 Likes
#288

The answer ā€œbecause you canā€ still stands. Sigismundā€™s soldiers were known to be bringing havoc notwithstanding the allegiance of the poor folk or prospects of any booty. They were doing it simply because Sigismund let them to.

The folk doing that are a bit different from your average SamopŔe villager in the same way the hardcore Neonazis differ from the average WH team mates. They are primarily driven by their bloodlust and secondary reasons like allegiance/race are used mostly because they are more acceptable to society.

It is the same with criminals on the streets. You have opportunists who want to get something from you, and might hurt you in the process, and then you have psychopaths who want to hurt you, and might get something in the process. Put those people on the background of civil war with their leadership not giving a single s**t and you get groups of psychopaths terrorizing people just for the fun of it (while taking their possessions in the process too).

If the aim of the game is realism and you truly believe that

then you are about to fail greatly on realism.

#289

Okay, so true to the intended topic of the thread, I think I may have my thoughts on the matter finally settled.

There are strange differences between real life and ā€œrealisticā€ video games, that actually obstruct the goal of ā€œrealismā€ rather than add to it. Weā€™ve discussed several points, one of the latest being village pillaging, and hereā€™s how I think of it.

Q: Did it happen in real life? A: Yes
Q: Do I want to see it in real life? A: No!
Q: Do I want to see it in a ā€œrealisticā€ game? A: Yes!

And hereā€™s why. In real life, if I saw that (KC: D), or someone being raped (Custerā€™s Revenge), or had to murder my way out of a prison to survive (Manhunt), or a myriad other things that video games have let us experience over the years, Iā€™d probably cry or pee myself or pass out or all three. Because Iā€™m not trained to deal with those situations, Iā€™m not a honed fighter. I play gamesā€¦ I donā€™t perfect my swordplay. I donā€™t hone my muscles until theyā€™re capable of hurling an attacker from his victim.

But in games, I do have that. In KC: D, if I come upon a village being pillaged, will I run? Or pee? Or fall helplessly to the ground? Hell no! Iā€™m going to draw my sword, or bow, or ax, or halberdā€¦ Iā€™m going to mount my horse, and Iā€™m going to get medieval on those sumbitches. Iā€™m gonna save me some common folk, get some free ale and some coin, and get to chat up the mayorā€™s daughter.

So to say, ā€œI want pillage scenes because itā€™s realisticā€, is all good, but you obviously donā€™t want to react realistically to it. You want to play the hero. Or you want to sit idly and watch. Or you want to join in and share some spoils. Whatever you want, I can bet that itā€™s not what the real you would do if you drove into a small town and it was being attacked by militia (broad example, feel free to modify to suit your demographic).

So how far should realism be taken? I guess that depends on what real-life situations we would like to be able unrealistically participate in. :wink:

1 Like
#290

Will we be able to burn buildings in a village down by throwing a torch on them?

1 Like
#291

That is what concealed carry is for, son.

2 Likes
#292

very good points @Night1505 however I might add in a realistic game I donā€™t want to be godlike or a superhero. Iā€™ve actually been in combat situations and know what itā€™s like to be surrounded by guys with knives and only having a mop nearby as a weapon. (Yes itā€™s the godā€™s honest truth I did take out 3 guys with knives using only a mop). It doesnā€™t matter if youā€™re physically weak or strong or have training or not. You have people who piss themselves and people who donā€™t when theyā€™re outmatched. Sometimes you come out on top sometimes you donā€™t. Some fights you win by saying the right words and looking as fearless as you can. These are aspects I want to see in a realistic game. Now I know they arenā€™t going to be outright easy to implement though with VR on the horizon perhaps itā€™s time for video game developers to begin thinking along those lines. In civilian life you donā€™t get an opportunity to get into fights without repercussions very often. I would love to recreate that event where I was outmatched and had to use what was available to survive. Of course such an event would only be possible in VR.

#293

we already lobbied for that in this thread. But I vagly remember a developer saying somthing that made me loose hope that it will be implemented.

#294

Claims to have taken out 3 wielding guys with a mop and becomes combat expertā€¦ Why would you want to recreate a time in your life when you were close to being murdered and had to fight for your life. It couldnā€™t have been a very pleasant experience.

#295

Same here. Which is one reason this game appealed so much to me. To be perfectly specific, the things that made me put my money down on this game were all in the KS video:

  1. The player being a cutpurse by literally cutting a purse from an NPC
  2. The 1st person sword fighting where you canā€™t see your hands (looking at you Skyrim)
  3. The never-before-seen (by me) melee combat that looks like a fencing simulator (think the scene where the player is taking on two guys on a large field). Particularly the little move he does where he taps the tip of the enemyā€™s sword aside before slashing.
  4. The sword sharpening scene at the grinding wheel.
  5. The fist fighting where you could actually punch and kick the opponent.
  6. Seeing the player stabbed and actually feeling some weight behind the graphics.
  7. Dungeons & No Dragons :wink:

So the fact that Iā€™m not all powerful is a plus rather than a minus. However, Henry is still going to act very differently from how I would, simply because he is a fictional character with zero consequences or fear.

But, Iā€™m certainly not saying that we should concede realism simply because our digital characters wonā€™t really be acting truly real. But the realism should add to the fun factor of the game, and not just because ā€œthatā€™s how it works in real lifeā€.

A few people have mentioned DayZ as an example of realism going too far. Allowing players to take a poo. What happened? Players pooā€™d on other players (not super cool, but makes the immature me laugh still). Do people poo in real life? Yes. Do they go around pooing on whomever in public. Well, not generally, no. So while pooing is realism in the game, it wasnā€™t really adding to the fun of the game (you may find it fun to poo on others, but prolly donā€™t find it so fun to be pooā€™d on :slight_smile: ), since players can hardly be expected to use the feature realistically.

Should KC: D include ā€œdisturbingā€ (in quotes only due to the sliding scale of definition among diverse groups of people) material for the sake of historical accuracy? I say yes. I know what Iā€™m buying. I know there will be blood, and nasty humans doing evil things, because I know that stuff did really happen. So, Iā€™m prepared for itā€¦ even excited for it.

Should we have to make Henry stop and relieve himself every so often for the sake of realism? I say probably not. That wouldnā€™t be fun, I donā€™t think. Some might, but I donā€™t think theyā€™re gonna throw a fit if itā€™s not included.

I guess what it comes down to, for me, is the difference between historical accuracy, and realism. Historical accuracy should be included for the sake of historical accuracy. Realism, however, should not be included simply for the sake of realism. Realism should be included for the sake of entertainment. I suppose thatā€™s about as succinct.as I can put it. :wink: :slight_smile:

#296

thank god youā€™re not developing this game, we might see nothing but caricatures.

#297

That statement is Incorrect. I really have never understood the fear of a fight, perhaps itā€™s because Iā€™ve been in fights since a very young age. Personally a welcome a good fight, knives make people more pathetic in my eyes, though the risk they pose adds to the fun. Most people who want to use a weapon to take you out are pathetic. Especially for a stupid reason like skin color. Second time in my life people tried to kill me based on my skin color. 1st time I was in the first grade and was a pacifist. Second time Iā€™m ex-military who loves a fight. That second time I did a lot better.

#298

There is a way to add defecation in a moderately enjoyable way though I think itā€™s more important in sim games. You may not need to utilize the rest room very often though as time went on our dear blacksmith might need to find a latrine or bush to relieve himself or perhaps he may find himself in a message situation should a fight break out suddenly. This might stun the attackers as the back away from the sudden odor. I think the ability to defecate anywhere is a realistic ability simply not a realistic action. So specific points, like in sleeping dogs, where you can relieve yourself would be best.

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