Realistic archery

Combat system
#61

Sorry, but it is a worthless test because the Breastplate is made with modern materials by modern methods…
(and modern steel is not automatically better at stopping an arrow then armour back then… some modern steel is too brittle)

The armor vs longbow debate is so problematic because there are so many factors and unknown.
Material and production method of arrow
Material and production method of armour
Thickness of armour
Type of armour (a breastplate can be made in many ways)
Range
Angle of impact
Strenght of bow
Velocity
etc…

3 Likes
#63

There would be few battles in game but I don’t think they will be that common. Much likely, I would say, you will be facing single or few opponents at closer range (probably not all in full plate armour). So you may have only one or two shots.
Yes, in Bohemia crossbows were much more common at that time and there weren’t probably really strong bows at all.
Also I didn’t ment to compare absolutely weak VS absolutely iunaccurate but rather rate or balance between those two.

What one Atribute would you choose then? Fine motor skill determine your work with fingers and precision, right? So it could be, in my opinion, good atribute for archery. Sadly, there isn’t one - so I think of Agility, a motor skill, as closest. Agility is about reflex and body co-ordination and you do use your body when shooting as reflex is definetly important.

#65

You probably noticed that English is not my mother tongue so it is perfectly possible that I understand word agility differently, closer to my original language.
Co-ordination, reflex and balance… etc are in my dictionary as a description of the agility.

#66

A more realistic system could be good, but how it’s playable? It can be inserted in the game even without bring it too difficult to use?

#67

anyway, a clothyard shaft from a 150 pound longbow, with a bodkin point, won’t bode well for anyone on the receiving end.
If the enemy is lighty armored, say leather or chainmail, it will pierce the armor.
If the enemy is heavily armored (Knight in full plate), he might get knocked of his horse.
and with several extra pounds of steel, you’re not really nimble scrambling to your feet.

#68

this is so true…
in all the films, you see the archers as these scrawny, tiny people.
In reality, archers were about the strongest people on the battlefield.
They have excavated skeletons of soldiers who had grooves in the bones around their shoulders where the muscles were attached to the bones), because those muscles were overdeveloped by years of archery training.

#69

he might get knocked of his horse.
and with several extra pounds of steel, you’re not really nimble scrambling to your feet.

Sure it takes some time to get up but not that slow.

Here is one more video demonstrating how agile you could be in an armor (starting at about 0:45)

Regarding archery I also wish for a proper system as I´m shooting an english longbow as well as a horsebow myself.

#70

this largely depends on the terrain you’re in.
at the battle of Agincourt, the French knights were slaugthered by the English longbowmen.
and one of the deciding factors of that battle were the terrain (funnel) and the type of mud (very sticky kind, stuck to plate armor like a b*tch, it’s like trying to pull your boot out of a pool of sucking mud.)

also, being nible standing, is not the same as nible laying down.
Try standing up from the floor in that plate armor.
You have to lift your torso, and all the armor…

#71

+1 to all the ideas you’re talking about. It would really feel unrealistic to have a crosshair when shooting

#72

Surely it depends on the underground but then you´d also have problems with your movement on such an underground without armor :wink:

My posting was meant to be in general as a lot of people are thinking that movement / agility was pretty restricted in armors.

#73

No a knight will not get knocked of his horse. unlesss injured.
The energy is no way near what is needed to move a guy in armour.
And even if he did, he can get up just fine… again, unlesss injured.

Remeber the archers are not the only one who spendt 10+ year training for warfare.

1 Like
#74

Bodkin points weren’t what people often think they were. They weren’t hardened.
http://www.royalarmouries.org/what-we-do/research/analytical-projects/armour-piercing-arrowheads
Arrowheads made to combat armor were wider than the shaft of the arrow. The idea is that it makes a hole big enough for the shaft to not snap on the way in. I’m not sure how well that worked, but bodkins being unhardened while the wider arrows are supports that idea.

Here’s another arrow vs armor video. It’s the same as 20 meters away against a good breastplate.

1 Like
#76

Looking at the update video showing archery I think it will be very fun to pick off people with a bow :slight_smile:

#77

That… doesn’t make any sense at all?

A knight charging full speed on a horse and hits somebody with a lance does not knock the knight off his horse does it? But it would knock the other person flat.

#78

We are not talking about guns here. :smile:

#79

The knight’s saddle stops him sliding off backwards and so he can have the horse’s weight behind the lance too, or so I’ve read.

Before this, for example in the time of Alexander the Great, they held the lance out and not under the armpit. This was also done in the age of the musket.

That is true.

1 Like
#80

Yeah that’s right with the knight and lance. As for the bows I guess it’s not something to argue about because there was not (to my knowledge) a bow that could knock a knight from his horse. Even if one could the saddle would stop the guy from falling off :smiley:.

#81

An arrow can have approximately the same amount of force as a baseball 90mph, especially when it doesn’t pierce the plate, and almost full force is transferred. Now imagine (in full plate) getting hit with a baseball going 90mph. In the middle of a battle. And hundreds of other arrows falling around you, potentially scoring hits as well. Not saying you will be lifted off your feet by an arrow, that would be absurd. But getting hit in the helmet with a projectile traveling at ~52 meters per second? Wear a helm and get hit in the head with a frying pan and see how you sit a horse for long.

The pommel and cantle (front and back parts of saddle designed to keep him in) doesn’t stop him completely from being unhorsed (especially during a joust).

#82

You are comparing apples and oranges.
You can’t ague anything with just the speed. You also need to know the weigh of the object.
And getting hit by an arrow or getting shot will not push you of an horse, just like it don’t knock you to the ground if you are standing. (but it might make you loose you balance and make you fall of afterwards)

The reason a lance can do it, it because there is the total weight of man and horse behind it… so many hundreds of kg… compared to less than 1kg of an arrow.

#83

I’m not an archer in any way, but I’m very interested in archery being well implemented in Kingdom Come. Melee is going to be very special indeed, and I also wish that nows, and crossbows would be treated with as much regard. :smile:

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