the armor is black because of iron oxide, not because that’s how it looks. a fresh armor would look pretty much like it is right now(ie, metallic and slightly reflective, but uneven, bumpy surface lacking polish). the beat up rough brown armor look is just ahistorical hollywood/videogame myth from things like dark souls and shit like that.
When making armour there were many ways they could alter its colour. Through things such as heat-patination, russeting (aka browning), and others, either having to do with the heating, chemicals, or other processes to change the colour of the armour. We are talking black, blue, brown, and other colours…
When plate armour was made it doesn’t come out as a shiny polished silver color, but usually a much darker colour, sometimes it was left this way (IE “Black from the hammer” finish) whereas some could be polished into the more well known silver colour that many people associate plate armour with…
When the armour was left blackened (IE armour made for lower soldiers and at greater quanities) this is where they would then either paint over it, place cloth over it, or just leave it blackened.
You can see a remarkable example here of the “Black Sallet” helmets that were painted:
There were so many ways to decorate armour of the times, especially in the late 1400’s/early 1500’s until it went out of style.
The Greenwich armourer for example had many examples of different colours of armour that were made there (usually for royalty and other nobles)
Sorry to derail the thread a bit :(.
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Yes i was thinking kind of things like plague that kills the player, not small aelments. if anything those would be far less common due to the fact they were far more hardy than us in those times
I just stumbled about this and can’t let go it unchallenged!
From all records we have, including pictures, written sources and, as best evidence, guild regulations and military demands, most high to middle grade plate-armour of the 15th century (in the german empire, to be careful ) was polished in a certain degree. Not only the armour makers were widely mentioned in local centres of armour making, but also the armour polishers. So in Nuremberg, Innsbruck, Braunschweig or Luebeck, for instance.
If we make demonstration shows with armour in museums etc, one of the most frequent question from the audience is: “But the armour wasn’t near-mirror polished, wasn’t it?” It comes right after the question how heavy that armour was and if a knight could stand up without help…
Some reasons why it was polished:
- a polished surface will not oxidize as fast as a rough surface.
- it can be cleaned better and can better kept clean (e.g. from unavoidable flash rust).
- Blows, for instance from an bolt or arrow, more likely slips off from a smooth surface than from a somewhat rough one.
- If you fight in the bright sun, you will be very glad not to wear black armour! Beliefe me.
- It was a status symbol and looks very cool (everytime a very good reason in history).
A piece of armour was very expensive. You were very proud to have it and would take care of it.
There are only very few sources for painted or blackened/blued armour before the 1490th. There are a hell lot of more sources for polished armour.
Stiller: If you have sources that prooves the opposite, I would be really very glad, if you could share them. But comparing the greenwich armour with armour around 1400 is like comparing a napoleonic lancer with a WW1 tank.
Exeptions forming the rule: Very cheap and rough made armour, that wasn’t made by a armourmaker who was a member of a guild and/or made quickly in times of war or times of high demand for instance. But don’t forget: It was hightech and expensive in that time to make real plate armour. Not usually a job for a small village smith, for instance.
To lord crash: The timeperiod around 1400 is a very very difficult time for armour-experts, because armour was in a transition between chainmaille with surcoat/Wappenrock and such stuff and plate armour.
IMHO: In quite the same amount real plate armour comes up, the more surcoats and wappenröcke goes down.
Therefore it is called “transitional armour”. In that time there are some different styles in the mix, so I could not completely deny your words:
But I can deny at least the word “always”!
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One of the main points of blackening/bluing/painting armor was actually as a rust inhibitor, this protected the armour beneath it from rusting, polishing isn’t the only way to protect from rust.
As far as sources of different colours of armour you can see this throughout various paintings from the time periods,
IE Chroniques de Froissart’s Battle of Crecy
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chroniques+de+Froissart+battle+of+crecy&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=nOLXU6_IDa7KsQTwpIDgBQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=750
The Crusader bible (aka Maciejowski Bible) which is from the 13th century and shows different colors of chainmail even:
https://www.google.com/search?q=maciejowski+bible&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=odvXU6zzMcPgsAS8lIHQDA&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=750#facrc=&imgdii=&imgrc=bY6BpLopgEzXTM%253A%3B6Z6ksIAGrnhiUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.vikingsword.com%252Fvb%252Fattachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D84646%2526stc%253D1%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.vikingsword.com%252Fvb%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D7516%2526page%253D4%2526pp%253D30%3B980%3B803
From the Metropolitan museum of art:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/deca/hd_deca.htm
“The development of plate armor was complete by about 1420, enclosing the wearer head to toe in a harness of articulated steel plates, although mail and textile defenses were never completely abandoned. Plate armor offered numerous possibilities for decoration in a variety of techniques: with applied borders (29.154.3), paint, heat-patination, embossing, etching, engraving and pointillé, gilding, and inlay. In addition, helmets and breastplates were covered in textile while wooden shields (25.26.1) continued to be decorated, usually with more or less elaborate heraldic devices.”
I am not saying polished armor didn’t exist, it did, I am merely saying that armor of this era, even earlier, was decorated in a variety of ways and came in different colors and looks, plate armor wasn’t just all super-polished mirror finished, especially for the lower quality plate armor or less expensive suits.
Polishing the armor and keeping it mirror finished takes a lot of work/money, and other means of protection offered by different decorations were easier and/or cheaper to do.
Hi Stiller,
Sorry, I 'm on work and have to keep it short.
You are absolutely right to critizise my assertions, because it is not one of the simple questions. The topic has been hotly debated in the professional world for years and there is no ending in sight. As you can see, I am on the contra-side.
I will try a (somewhat short) summary: 
Definition: we are talking about armour, mainly platearmour in the “middleages”. So our time-window is roughly 14th and 15th century. From the ~1350th to the 1420th, there is the so called transition from the old chainmaille based set of armour to the full development of plate armour. This timeperiod is not only difficult for armor, but also other major changes…it is for instance the time of the development of the trousers and the doublet, too. Unfortunately our game dates exactly in this period.
All the metropolitan museum said is true… in the hundreds and hundrets of years men uses armour all over the world. But the question is German empire around 1400, Bohemia.
Colouring in this timeperiod:
-coating with gold, silver, tin.
-painting
-covering with textiles or leather.
-blueing/colouring by heat and oxidation of the surface (not chemicals)
-blackening by burning oil into the surface.
Coating and blueing requires a presumely polished surface, so it is more work than polishing alone. Blueing is only a very weak rust inhibitor. It is approx 1 micrometer thick and is very sensitive against scratches and polishing rust away. It wears off with using.
Blueing smaller items was well known in that timeperiod, but to archive a uniformely coloured surface on bigger parts, you need special know how and equipment.
It was made in big containers filled with sand and with heating it smoothly (heating to much would make the steel soft) on special ovens. AFAIK it was regular made in italy first, 2nd half of 15th century.
Taking everything together, sensitiveness of the surface, costly preperation (in that time know how and material was expensive, manpower cheap), then it was definately something for rich people, not for a smith in a small village in Bohemia.
Covering with textiles and leather: This is to be validated… IMHO most of the covered armours were brigantines. A special kind of armour where steel plates were riveted on a soft surface. In some cases platearmour was covered by velvet and silk, but definitely something for rich people, because those textiles were very expensive.
Painting: As I said above: there are only a very few cases known where definitely paint was used befor the late 1480th (!). Maybe the paint was not good enough (most medieval paint is not completely water resistant) and needs a good priming (not impact-resistant enough), too. Or it was simply not in fashion.
Finaly the last point: blackening!
This was made normaly made by heating up the steel up till approx. 300-400 degrees and then greased it with linseed oil. Or they simply put the hot steel in a bucket full of oil. This will burn the carbonized oil into the surface. This is a little bit better rust inhibitor, but definitely not completely. You have to oil it, too.
This is a very difficult topic because the technique was known and used, but we have no evidence or sources that armour was blackened in a greater ammount in Germany or western Europe, before 16th centoury. [see for instance: Brian R. Price: Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction]. There are many reenactors who like to have black or blued armour, but that is a matter of personal taste, and do not nessesary reflects the truth.
Munition grade armour: In Every century, there was well made expensive armour and cheap made armour. Also in this timeperiod. But the time of the large scale production of munition armour was not the 15th cent, but the second half of the 16th and on.
Why? That was the time of the large standing armys, in German the Landsknechte. Every sovereign with ambitions try to build up a standing army and equiped them with large amounts of cheap made munition armour. Often blackened or partly blackened.
Around 1400 there were only very small units of permanently hired mercenary. Mainly doing work in castles or cities. The mainpart of the troops were people with other jobs, only being a soldier when it is needed. In the first case the employer has often buyed the armour, but not nesessary. In the second case, the guy has to buy his own armour and was obliged to to this in some ways. Or a master has to arm his journeymen, or a knight his troopers, and so on. (City-arsenals were just at the beginning, in north germany i know them from around 1500 onwards).
In Both cases the normal way to get the armour was to buy it where it was regulary made… there were some few centers of armour production, mainly in some big citys. If you were rich, you could go there and let them tailor your very own plate armour, or you buy it from a merchant and hope that it fits good… But those armour was always major purchase (you may look at sources from cites where masters try to avoid buying armour, often with given prices, for instance) and even the cheapest armour in the 15th cent was made after sometimes very strict quality specifications and was not comperable to the munition armour from the 16th cent.
Taking all together, IMHO colored armour was not the standard, but something very special and extravagant. In all cases nothing for a small village in bohemia.
Very last point: looking at pictures from this time is very tricky. You can’t belive everything, but you can’t deny it from the start, too. You have to learn some “tricks”… One of those “trick” in this case is: If every single part of steel in the picture is blue, it is very very likely, that the painter means blue=normal steel…
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Yes I am aware of making sure the colors are correct, there are pictures that armour might look blue/black but the swords and other things are the same color. However in both those illustrations I mention it shows both a light color and darker in some of the same pictures.
As far as painting on armour goes, to me the problem is that a lot of armour has been mistakenly polished over the years (this was done even in the renaissance) and wore off the older paint that was on the armour. This is why so few examples exist and why even some there is evidence of the paint being partly rubbed off and having been tried to be “cleaned” off the armour.
We know that they had paint then and there are surviving examples of shields and other things painted which exist in museums prior to plate even existing.
So I would think they had paint, and paint can protect from the elements so logically it wouldn’t be a huge leap to assume that the Black Sallets and other few historical examples of painted armour weren’t actualy the first when they had the paint and skill to do it before that.
I look at it the same way as I do castles. When most people picture a castle they picture a big stone looking structure with bare exposed stones for its walls. When it truth many castles were actaully whitewashed and had a coat over the stones (like armour, to protect them from the elements) yet over the years it has worn away/been mistakenly cleaned off and now popular culture leads people to assume that a castle looks like just bare stone walls.
AS far as those being for the “wealthy” painting was cheaper then a lot of the other things, keeping the iarmour polished, gilding on the armour (which was usually something you saw on royalty armour and such), painting over the armour and using other rust inhibtors to protect it was easier/cheaper then many of the other alternatives and didn’t take as much work or upkeep as keeping it mirror finished and polished. Plus you have to worry about things isuch as the elements, rain, blood, and other things getting on the armour whereas with paint and other things over your armour which would protect it.
Hi guys.
Very intersting read @Stiler and @loksley!
Both of your arguments seem logical and make sense. I have limited knowledge on the finishing types of metallurgy in the particular perdiod around 1400. So logic is my only tool to deal with the sources I have. I found a few images in my files that possibly depict blackened or blued armor.
Most of them have all metal parts in the same colour though, which leads me to believe it is rather an artists style than an actual depiction. Like in these examples:
#01
#02
I think these might be a little bit past the 1420s at least as well. I don’t think the types of helmets shown there were yet around or common in 1403 (the Schaller helmets). Unfortunately I don’t have information on what the pictures show and when they were made. Can some of you give an advice? I have to repeat that I’m not an expert at the topic. 
I always enjoy reading and learning new stuff.
Now to get back on the original topic…
I have seen a lot of images with cloaks and capes and such. But never in combination with armor. Regarding the pictures I’ve seen the wappenrock or livree was worn regularly by let’s say half of the combatants. In the ingame footage I’ve seen plenty of situations where people were woolen hoods on top of plate armor and even underneath the helmed. This seemed very odd to me and I’d like to know if anybody has further information on how these regards were kept in the game period and if this is going to change in the game itself.
Kind Regards, Helge.
Yes normally when you see the swords and spear tips, etc the same color that usually leads to the artist or paint being their “artistic” idea (and perhaps because they didn’t have the color of paint they needed).
That is why you have to check them against each other,
For example:
https://www.google.com/search?q=maciejowski+bible&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=odvXU6zzMcPgsAS8lIHQDA&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=750#facrc=&imgdii=&imgrc=dtsPfhxmxv-iPM%253A%3BMaK4AAdLtxc4_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.swordforum.com%252Fforums%252Fattachment.php%253Fattachmentid%253D115846%2526d%253D1359921934%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.swordforum.com%252Fforums%252Fshowthread.php%253F111171-A-Timeless-Knightly-Sword%3B518%3B330
That is from the morgan bible (1250ad), long before this game takes place. You will notice the great helms, gold, white, blue etc, even other helmets that are green, red and what not vs the swords and things that look a different color.
Bugger washing off the blood off my armour. I need it to intimidate my foes and to let them know that thier blood shall be added to my collection.
Iron oxide? Do u mean Fe2O3? Thats rust…
sorry, i meant black oxide
Development of soldiers’ “robes” during past 1000 years:
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basically, no robes.
Robes, Capes and Cloaks in the Wenzel Bibel, Bohemia ~1389
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manuscript=4743
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I don’t believe any people are thinking of the stealth aspect of the game in regards to the cape, as if you look at any modelled “stealth expert” in media and gaming, they generally wore a black hooded cape as to hide their identity without having to buy a full set of dark clothing (though tbh they’d usually have dark clothing too)
I would love a cloak.
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Same here. For a stealth build definitely.
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I dont know if its true or some sort of myth…
I heard-read that capes (mainly the thick and decordted ones) were worn by riders to divert trajectory of an arrow shot at the rider.
But those were either decorative, worn by high-ranketd officers, but definitely not used on close-range combat.
Samurai used something like that (Link). Not sure about the Western world.
To the thread, having cloaks would be a great addition to the game. Short ones, for the dandies. Decorated and fur lined for the female nobility. Side-buttoned at the shoulder for the male nobility. Etc.
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