Stolen items and how to handle them

Jeepers I wasn’t being seriouse when I said 50%, I was pointing out the misconception that I had a dangly bits between ma lefs and thought that would be an amusing and slightly way of pointing it out, as interesting as those statistic are.

I understand where you are comming from @j_kolosovskis, though I assume that people might want to steal things not just to sell on especially if it’s an item of clothing or sword etc. personaly I will be ‘wasting’ a play through just fro the amusement of finding out what taboo things I can do, get caught and see what happens to the charater…then I will play sensibly.

Well that’s what happens when you get rid/let females die because you view them as less valuable. I have an uncle who is Honkong Chinise, he make the defenition don’t know why, anyway he had two sisters they where, basicly, allowed to die because his family could only afford so much medicen and if the children where sick the boys of the family got it first over the girls.

Wonder if due to the lack females thier social status has changed for them a little or not?! I’m guessing not.

More over in Chinese society men typically worked in the fields and produced the food and income for the family…the women really didn’t do much of anything. So it was more of a financial decision. Not that women couldn’t do anything of course, but they were considered a luxury good a sort of accessory for men. Even though that’s changed a lot even in China women are still not seen as equal to men and a family can only have 1 child per family (population control laws) so once again if you have a baby girl you’ll normally send her to a government adoption agency where people all over the world can adopt the kids. Normally 6 to a crib strapped in tightly so they don’t kick too much. I knew a family who adopted a girl from china they had to spend thousands to fix her body because of her treatment she was badly crippled. She wouldn’t even cry for the first 6 months they had her. Now she’s about 17 and she’s a happy young women.

It would have not been so bad, if my Uncles family had not been reasonably a well off family, aparently they had land and servants etc.so that makes me just a little suspiciouse as to why the girls where not given the medicen?! This was before the one child rule was introduced, by my count there where two sisters and three brothers and only the brothers survived.

I can understand them being removed, I view it as the stolen property is taken back from the thief and returned to the owner it was stolen from.

If you were caught stealing around that time, you would have it taken off you and either kept by guards or given back to the owner and then you would most likely have your hands cut off or get lashings/beatings/jail time, to pay for your crime(s).

An immersive explanation would be nice though, to show that the goods were either returned or kept by someone corrupt/greedy and I hope we get severe punishments for severe crimes, even death by hanging or torcher for killing innocent people, which would hopefully wipe your character and make you start again :smile:

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Other merchants should not be able to know if an item is stolen but if you try to sell a stolen item to the same merchant you stole it from he will notice. It’s not impossible to imagine that some merchants might leave a mark like red paint on the bottom of some of his wares just to keep track of what’s his. And yes make so you can get arrested by mouth to mouth rumors!

I like the (more) realistic apporach. :slight_smile:

@Hellboy
What happens if we get caught? Thumb for the first time, hand for the second, head for the third…? :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: Please don’t derail this topic with this “population” discussion. :wink:

considering their overall population, not really

Please end this off-topic discussion ASAP! Make a new off-topic thread if necessary…

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I love the fact how much you guys do listen to us on the forums. As a backer of some other projects, I can easily say Warhorse are my favourites! :smiley:

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Realism is fine just as long as the penalty is as well.

so if you are caught - you lose a hand or head right?

makes fighting a little harder - or pay x bribe

but not back then, woman were second class citizens if they were lucky, socetiy was wrong but that was history, thankfully we are getting better

I was just thinking about this the other day @Hellboy. Not being able to sell ‘stolen items’ never made sense to me. They all look the same, how could you possibly know this doesn’t belong to me! From what I’m looking at, the chances of you getting away with stealing would come down to value, rarity, number of items, as well as time of day, visibility, skill in stealth and speech, reputation, and moral compass of witnesses and guards. A lot to consider, to be sure, but I’m sure you’ll find a realistic workable system.

It should be possible to sell stolen items imo
if the shopkeeper notices that its stolen or the one you stole it from sees you with the stolen goods,
you may get bad reputation or something
if its a bigger thing you stole you may even get arrested, or the guards catch you and you either can go to jail or get charged for it
but there should still be a chance of getting away with it.
Otherwise stealing wouldnt be so much fun

I know a little about programming and scripting, and here’s a basic idea that I think could work.

Each item has a specific ID number pertaining to it, and it only. The ID could be 8 bytes long with the leading bits representing the objects type (IE: A sword) and the reamining bits representing the specific object. Each NPC has a personal queue of ‘stolen’ items known to it. the queue is limited in size so as the NPCs don’t have unlimited remembering power. Only the original victim of theivery can report the stolen item to guards, or to other NPCs. If he is robbed, his first instinct is to break his day-to-day routine and tell the guards what was stolen, and who, if anybody, took it. Than, for each NPC he interacts with, they preform a digital ‘handshake’, which should share extensive information, including the theivery rumor. However, each time the stolen item ID is passed along, it loses a bit (for fairness, you could modify this so that it’s every two or three times, because it’d degrade fast if it loses a bit each time it’s passed) this represents ‘rumor degridation’. it will stop degrading once only the leading bits are left, so that eventually the majority of the town would know there’s some kind of stolen sword, but they don’t know which one it is. So, if the NPC often meets with shop keepers, he might be able to tell them about the sword in detail. In which case they might call you out. The more stolen bits the shopkeeper has and the more of them that match up with the item that you’re trying to sell, the more suspicious they’ll be of you. Perhaps, depending on your relationship with the NPC salesman that can modify their hostility towards you more, or less.

So, for example (6 bytes for simplicity), if you steal a sword[SW2048] from a fisherman, and he sees you[ID1], he’ll go tell the guards that [ID1] stole my [SW2048]. If the guards see you, they’ll search you, and prosecute you for having [SW2048] if you have it on you. Now, fisherman tells his friend blacksmith that [SW2048] was stolen. He remembers that its [SW2048], and shares it with carpenter, who he tells it’s [SW204], who shares it with preist who carpenter tells it’s [SW20]. Now, you go to the preist holding [SW2048], and he asks you where you got it. This could engage a conversation where the preist could try to trick you, and the wrong choices would convince him you’re the Theif. Than, he’d call the guards who know that [ID1] stole [SW2048] which you have, and they would then arrest you.

My idea is kind-of a scripted solution, and would probably be hard to implement without bogging down the game a lot. But I think it’s possible.

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100% without any second thoughts I prefer the first option - more unpredictable, yet realistic approach!
I think that any decent gamer who backed Deliverance because of its approach to realism will side with me and request the realistic method.
Nonetheless, we are all tired of those stupid arcade RPG where everything is so straight and linear, exactly not as in real life. So please (very please:), unleash your imagination and implement what you suggested!
Thank you!

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Because you mentioned “put something in NPC’s pocket”, this also hasn’t been mentioned before -
to actually “put something in anyone’s pocket” you should be VERY skillful to do so. Even if you are, you should be able to pocket only small and light objects like coins, rings and such. That goes both way - for the PC and for the NPCs.
Deliverance should stay clear away from Skyrim’s approach of putting a battleaxe in someone’s pocket or taking his armor away…

For keyword “stolen items” I noticed when watching the videos always this wonderful dimensionally stable (in German called “Rauhspund”) boards on which lie on the paths in the middle. Think, every farmer would be thrilled to obstruct in his chicken coop. Especially since they seem to come fresh from the sawmill … does not fit into the scenery. Are too new and pitfalls, in the rain and mud they float up and become surfboards …:wink:

I like the idea of a realistic system. If it’s a generic item you probably wouldn’t get caught, you also probably wouldn’t get much for it. But if you stole something more unique, say from a noble, then you’d have to very careful selling it. But you’d also probably make a lot more from the sale of a special item. More risk, more reward.

Realistic for sure.
Would it be possible to simply assign a % chance of being discovered when trying to sell a stolen item? You could use a formula such as "((item value/100) + item uniqueness) x relationship multiplier = % chance of being caught.
You could get more complicated than this of course, but basically a more valuable stolen item would likely garner more attention from the victim and the guards he told. The victim may put out a reward or tell more people (hypothetically) which would increase your chances of being discovered. The uniqueness of an item would also contribute to you being caught as well. If you stole a common item, it would be harder to pinpoint you as the thief. If you stole a rare item, of course it would be easier to spot.
Also the relationship to the shopkeeper would make an impact too. A friendly shopkeeper may turn a blind eye (multiplier less than one) or a suspicious shopkeeper may examine the items in detail.
Further example: You steal a sword worth 1000 units, and it is a common iron sword (unique: 10). You go to your nearest shopkeeper who doesn’t know you that well (multiplier 1.5). Your total chance of being discovered would be (1000/100 + 10) x 1.5 = 30% chance of being caught.

Depending on the coding and infrastructure of the game, this may be an easy solution.

-K