Subtle Multiplayer WITHIN Campaign

The roots of this idea are from another topic, but I’d like so see what people think of this kind of
multiplayer interaction WITHIN the single-player campaign.

The inspiration for this idea comes from the game Demon’s Souls, where a certain boss in your single player story is replaced by another player. This adds a greater level of challenge, a very memorable encounter, and a feeling of satisfaction in overcoming the fight that you would not expect.

  1. BATTLES

The purpose of this kind of multiplayer interaction is supposed to be relatively invisible, therefore no ‘modes/menus/lobbies’ etc. So imagine playing your campaign and reaching a major battle scenario. Pre-battle the armies march into their formation lines, and this would be a couple of minutes long to disguise loading and polling of any other players also about to begin the battle in THEIR campaigns.

Flags/Heraldry might be raised in the distance to represent other players additons to the battlefield, and a
players would be the option to fight after, say, 2 mins of no new players also reaching their battles. Simple ‘Hold’ or ‘To Victory’ commands to your squire would indicate players wanting to begin the battle or wait for more players.

So, paramount to the experience, no immersion breaking elements that are usually associated with ideas of multiplayer.

Optimally, players are seeded throughout the battlefield in various units, and spread out. Concentrations of non-AI behaviour are not what is desired. Players would excapsulate the stories of various heroes and champions. People who create an impact on a battle, but can’t turn it single-handedly, as let’s be honest, the AI opponents will not be push-overs either. So having, say 4 players on each side of a battle of thousands will add spice to the conflict, but not overpower it, especially if you meet your ‘opposite number’ on your attack or defence avenue.

As the experience is paramount, there would be no chat for spamming or anything, but a limited range of gestures like salutes or taunts would consitute communication. Thus, no strategising with even your own side (unless it’s basic, such as sending a runner to the right flank force with an Advance! order).

Thus the purpose is to share a battlefield and to try and tip the scales in the favour of your army against
thinking opponent heroes, with other champions and heroes fighting and pushing other parts of the battlefield.

Death in any campaign likely means a re-do. I doubt KC-D has immersion breaking respawns. Potentially falling in battle to another player (who would also be risking a lot seeking you out in combat) would be treated the same as dying to an NPC. So in effect, you’d want to have as much impact on the battle as possible, and only risk your life for the victory/defeat conditions of the battle. Anyone alive on the victorious side would naturally break off back into their own campaign stories at the conclusion of the battle.

KC-D could implement multiplayer elements in-campaign that are not seen in any other game. This could be something unique and special.

  1. RESPONSIVE/SITUATIONAL MULTIPLAYER

So this is a little bit more of a stretch. But there are certain scenarios where a very immersive multiplayer
experience would be possible.

Say a player (choosing to play with online enabled) decides to slaughter a village in their own campaign
Player(s) (also choosing to play with online enabled) in surrounding villages in their own campaigns might
have a peasant boy run up to them with “An attack on Milford! I beg you, help us!”.

Now a knight in those times is a representative of their lord and able to dispense justice, so accepting the boy’s request a player could ride to the town Milford under slaughter and run off, or fight/duel another
player. Thus perhaps VERY significant criminal actions might be punished by another online player. Again, no immersion breaking communication forms other than gestures or the formularised speech.

Obviously the biggest issue that impacts immersion is that only the property and people in Milford are harmed in the criminal’s instance of the town. But personally, I thing the discrepancy of another player’s Milford in flames as you slay a rogue knight/bandit, and then later riding into your own unscathed Milford a few days later is worth the opportunity to dispense justice on law breakers.

So specific opportunities to cross into another players campaign to interact with them would, in my opinion add a huge amount of interest.

  1. EVENT MULTIPLAYER

3a. Crafting Fair, Music, Archery, Duels, Joust, Melee.

Other opportunities to ‘share’ an experience with other players could range from smithing/crafting contests at a fair for a prize, music competitions, and of course certain formalised combat at fairs or tourney. It’s been mentioned of course that during a civil war, combat events may not be held. Well, I think that is true to a degree. The main character in his capacity as (eg.) Sir Markus Zantosa of Lord Bratovich could not sully his honour in participating in anything but a proper tournament; Markus as just another black knight disguising his heraldry would be fine. Obviously this would mean that the rewards are nothing significant to his station, but can still enjoy combat against other ‘black knights’.

A win-win scenario: player vs player tourney duels and jousts, with no duplicate titles, and no prizes of magnitudes that could skew the difficulty of the campaign.

3b. Hunts, Raids, Raid-Defence

While a Fair/Tourney are great, other more expansive events would also be interesting and enjoyable. A grand hunt to see who can bring down the largest buck for the the Lord’s feast. Or a prize hunt to slay a man-killing bear or large wolf.

Raids. When war is a central part of the campaign, joining a raiding party might be possible from one of the command posts. You enter a shared instance of an area of country side where the enemy has a camp or supply convoy. Players on either side might constitute up to 10% or such of the combatants, and therefore might have a more significant impact on the skirmish. Anyone who survives, in victory or fleeing with loot, could reap a reward. Likewise the destroyed camp/convoy ruin could be duplicated into the campaigns of those that survive. (Camps and convoys are obiviously better to use than towns or locations that would have a storyline impact. Temporary constructions (ie. “instant” targets) in relatively empty locations are also better so that a player can go on many raids if they choose).

Naturally, those who die would have to load their last save, or however the game handles death.

  1. HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN!

TL;DR

Players choosing to play in an online mode that allows for sharing certain battles, competitions, and certain events such as crime/justice etc, WITHOUT IMPACTING THE CAMPAIGN STORYLINE. Strictly limited communication appropriate to setting, such as gestures and formalised speech options (thus no spamming or immersion breaking modern language).

Death in RPGs is usually followed by a Load, thus multiplayer doesn’t have to leave a permanent impact on the campaign of a player that dies (since after a load it never happened), but victors get rewarded.

KC-D could implement multiplayer elements in-campaign that are not seen in any other game. This could be something truely unique and special.

3 Likes

Rough suggested numbers:

Battles: 1 player per several hundred soldiers

Raids: 1 player per 20-50 soldiers

Tourney: You may never know if your adversary is human or not! Seriously, even with a only a gesture or so before a duel, or less in a joust, you may not even know if some of the competition field is populated with other players.

Again, other players would just add some more variability and spice to such conflicts, not overpower them, as I doubt the main character will be a massacre-machine if the game is aiming for realism.

Above all such subtle multiplayer is to make the conflicts memorable if they are less predictable, with players acting the roles of heroes and champions on either side.

@JANNUS - I would love to see a mod for this game be developed to allow friends to play within your save file. Something that aligns along with that would allow yourself and a couple buddies siege war against NPC kingdoms.

I really like everything you wrote. If that was put in to what I expect to be a great sp experience, that would be awesome. If they are going to put all this work into a combat system and big battles that would be great for some multiplayer.

I love Demons/DArk souls and think their mp is a great way to infuse MP elements within a single player game without pulling the player out of ht efocus or experience of the single player game and itf done rigiht I think it would be great in Kingdom come.

I’d LOVE to see a game like this with a NWN/NWN2-style persistent world. In fact some of the most fun I’ve ever had has been on NWN2 worlds (Legacy: Dark Age of Britain and Rise of Sauron especially).

I’m not expecting it given the incredible amount of resources that would be required to support it, but it would be awesome nonetheless.

there is no campaign, this isn’t a strategy game, it’s an rpg. your suggestions wouldn’t fit into this game, period.

1 Like

Please no.

The scope of this project is already huge enough. All resources should be used to make it an as good as possible SP experience imo.

2 Likes

And there is no co-op planned, because they would need to change the story so co-op makes sense. Also no MP in general. They want to offer a true singleplayer experience.

@JANUUS
You outlined a great concept for a great game, but one that is completely different than KC:D. Maybe after Act III is done and Warhorse thinks what to do with the assets they have, they could pick it up and make it true.

Either that or modding! :wink:

So reading some of the responses, I just wanted to clarify that what I meant by the campaign was the ‘story-mode’, which I wasn’t calling ‘single-player’ because of the idea I was proposing: That a subtle level of multiplayer-elements were seamlessly and invisibly (from an immersion standpoint) integrated.

To be clear, the essence of this is to make the game a richer with thinking responsive and unpredictable non-AI opponents that would be completely avoidable by simply playing offline (not logging in to Warhorse servers).

This is not about sharing your story with other players, just very specific events. The ‘seamless and invisible’ that would be the goal of this integration is to cut out any obvious factors that would break immersion: names, text or voice communication, modded equipment, etc. Anything that would readily identify the other player as a human would be undesirable.

Examples:

  • The dispensing justice scenario in my original post, you simply would be fighting against a non-AI opponent designated as ‘Sheriff’ or the like, with nothing other than their behaviour to distinguish them as a human.

  • In the crafting fairs, a crafting competition would not even have a need to display other player models. The result and the prize would be announced as a placement.

  • In raids or battles or almost any other scenario, perhaps the class description is enough: Knight, Bard. Rogue, etc.

If unique identifiers were absolutely required, heraldry should suffice. With a shield-banner-crest combination with enough variation in elements and colours, there would be more than enough unique combinations.


**Complementary is the watchword for this type of multiplayer-elements, NOT invasive or immersion breaking. This is purely about adding human complexity and skill and variability into a 99% AI setting.

This kind of multiplayer concept is very hard to communicate with justice, as it is simply not seen outside of games such as the Soul’s series, and even there it is more blatant than what I’m trying to elaborate here.

A true full-on Multiplayer Mode, with icons floating above player’s heads, lobbies, map choice, player co-ordination and team-chat and all that other “Multiplayer” stuff, is something else entirely and not what I’m advocating at all.**

This one of the few forms of multiplayer that might actually fit into this game. HOWEVER, I still believe that the development time and resources required to implement this into the existing game would be better spent making sure the existing single player experience is as polished and fully formed as it should be.

Perhaps when all three SP story acts have been released then this would be a great idea to work into the game after the fact as a downloadable patch.

Absolutely. I definitely would want nothing to compromise the story.

Part of the point of what I was proposing is to promote replayability, so a post completion patch would be quite ideal.

So much yes. Any kind of multiplayer would be such a plus to this game. I would love it if it was a co-op drop in/out kinda game that way it would not mess with too much.

As I said somewhere before. Not necesary every game is build for multyplayer. Not every engine can run and process the comunication with server and clients in real time. If you want multyplayer even in the simpler forms, you really need to think about it in the beginings. The whole architecture needs to be built specifically to allow multyplayer. And as they implied, they dont planned on multyplayer so far, so its fair to say the engine or (some other part) can’t do it. And the fact they went with reverse kynematics approach where you check for colision severall times in one second and you simulate the colisions. rather than to simply script them (which in some cases can look more realistic) to a certain moves, that doesnt help either.

If there will be Multyplayer and I’m not saying even for a second there will. It will be with revised combat system. And game mode something along the lines of the tournament mode.

Dark Souls belittles multiplayer to me. What happen to games like Baldur’s Gate and Neverwinter Nights? Why can’t you have 3 people connect to a host player and join them on their campaign?

they’re bad games designed for unrealistic fantasy gameplay, so multiplayer fits right in to ruin things and no one will notice anyway.

The breakdown is that Warhorse is developing the story around a single character (Henry). It wouldn’t make sense within the game to have coop because there can’t be three Henry’s running around. Perhaps the tournament mode would be a sufficient place to allow multiplayers to battle one another. However, as far as cooperation within the story of the game that wouldn’t be possible.

BG and NWN only had one main character, no reason this game couldn’t do the same.