Suggestion on how to improve the next sequel of KCD from a technical point of view

I’m not sure if there would be some adjustments in model orientation (like if both use the same axis for horiyontal/ forward bacward etc…)
But you would lose all materials and some textures as Cryengine and Unreal uses both different reflection approach (specular VS gloss)

That respond would be correct. Fortnite do not use realistic global illumination. Sky creates shadow that has the same intensity same all over the world (under a single tree or in a deep forest). That is then improved by Distance Field that makes surface close to another surface darker. Great for Fortnite, not amazingly realistic.

It looks great and I like the game. They could afford (I do not know but I’m sure they did) to use static lighting that is baked shadows into a special texture so you don’t have to simulate it every frame. That way you can simulate almost any complex lighting with bounce light and such for cost of a texture.
But there is a catch. Two at least:
Your shadow-casting lights cannot move (sun and sky, small like torch could be made movable).
Every object in the level has it’s unique shadow texture.

Those things practically makes this approach unusable for open world with dynamic day/night cycle. But ideal for “tunnels” games.

For open world gmaes Cryengine offers SVOTI (voxel based global illumination). Unreal does not have anything like that so far (though there are options like Nvidia VXGI, just not out of the box and I do not know much about them nor any game that uses that)

I’m not sure this is an engine issue. Consider that all the people around have their routine, decisions, layers of clothing and such.

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Yes the engine was meant only for few NPCS to be rendered simultaneously, in KCD sequel it is possible that 200 Vs 200 people would fight in your screen and that wouldn’t be even comparable to what Rattay can offer for multiple NPC moving all together in a small area.

There could be a solution for that but it would mean taking the long run (for the better) by building they’re own engine like CD Projekt Red did for The Witcher 3 by developing the REDengine 3. That would be a great solution to the problem (yes I’m suggesting that WH need to build their engine) because CryENGINE it’s not “performance oriented”

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When UE4 game runs poorly, it is not because the engine, and when game Cryengine game runs poorly it’s because of the engine?

Yes it has and I don’t find very impressive that UE4 can run well game which looks like this.

No it doesn’t look bad, it looks very good. But not very good example, it is linear game with closed environments and very few NPCs at the same time, look at Ryse: Son of Rome very similar type of game (with more NPCs and more epic scenes).

UE4 is actually one of the best engine for photorealism, but mostly for interior scenes with static lighting.

No, what Victor Bocan said was very simplified.
Something about choosing engine from Daniel Vavra’s blog:

“We were looking for a complete package which included engine with good tools, especially for the terrain editing and scripting, AI, some pretty lighting and a sophisticated animation system. Some engines offer all of this in one package (Cryengine) and some rely on 3rd party solutions (Havok Vision). Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages. In the first example, you have everything under one roof for one price, but you might end up paying for something you don’t need. You also don’t have the choice to select the component that suits your game best if you’re not happy with the built-in one. In the second example, the initial price is lower and there is much more choice, but when you need everything anyway you may end up with a higher price, than the one for the complete package and lots of solutions from various providers may not work as well together. Even then there is a possibility that the option to choose different components to your liking will be more important than the final price.”

“We ended up with six different engines for evaluation and several middleware solutions for lighting, animations and AI. We were testing everything for two months (not long enough) and the final decision was not easy. I would have loved to work with the new younger developers like Unigine or Bitsquid, since one could easily see that they have a lot of talent and enthusiasm and what they provide looks great, but on the other hand we had to play it safe. Our game is going to be huge and we need proven and advanced tools from day one. I also liked the combo of Unreal + Enlighten lighting middleware which looks totally awesome (Enlighten was used in Battlefield 3), but it has its shortcomings when you have a game with realtime time of day changes and huge (huuuuge) environments.”

“In the end, we decided to go with CryEngine 3, because it has a little bit of everything we need. It has great tools for building large worlds, very impressive real-time lighting, great looking foliage, supports all the platforms we’re interested in, plus our lead artist worked at Crytek before leaving to come work with us, which is also a great advantage. For a game of our size and scope, CryEngine was (hopefully) the best choice. If we were developing a different game or had a different budget, our choice might have been different because all of the tech we tested had their strong points.”

I’m not saying developing on Cryengine was not problematic and maybe they encountered some problem and limitations of engine that made development difficult and resulted in the bad technical state of the game.
But development of game like Kingdom Come would by difficult on any engine and developing their own engine was not even an option.

You provided zero information that would suggest KCD would run good on UE4. I don’t have deeper knowledge about technical side of the engines, so I don’t know. But I’m quite interested in graphical side of engines and I can tell that I would look much worse (mainly because already mentioned dynamic global illumination).

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Yesterday, I entered the Rattay swordsmith’s place. He’s a firm believer in transparency. Accordingly, the building around us didn’t render until I was inside his store and had fully engaged him in the price of Herod’s sword. So as to be considerate and not overload my senses with too much detail, he sensibly retained his gummy bear textured face and clothing for a few seconds.

Some hours later I left the south to return to Pribyslavitz. The breath taking scenery was enhanced by the beautiful and abundant flowers and the ever so slight but detectable flashing of trees in the distance. Occasional stutter along the way was also a friendly game reminder that I need to trim my saves files.

By the time I had reached Rovna, dusk turned to darkness. The darkness there along with the starry sky was stark and captivating. The rain was an innovative touch. Though, as the rain was slightly pixelated, there’s still a little room for improvement.

So, what you may not know if WH studio gave a like to a tweet that Viktor was being sarcastic.
Blessed be Viktor’s sarcasm
God willing, the trees will keep looking cool

Yes, the game is in bad technical state, we all know that.
And your point is?

You presume to know relative performance even as WH doesn’t have a handle on its own engine implementation :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

In SDLC speak, WH qualification/stress testing was inadequate, and we (especially console users) are paying the price

Where did I state that?

would look much worse

I meant it in terms of graphical features, not technical state.
As I stated I don’t have deeper knowledge of technical side of the engines in question, so I can’t judge.

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Beautiful looking game!
I found a vid on YT for this game using XBox One and it “looked” great.
But this particular game does not seem like it has a lot to do, except handle graphics.
Wondering if the UR4 engine can also handle the inventory files and clothing changes that are dominant in KCD?
And video playback when Henry changes armor and such?
Maybe someone else can answer these questions?
WHS must have considered what engine to use early in the game’s development.
Maybe one of the developer’s can answer this question?
After reading more of the comments, I realize I need to watch the Documentary Video.
Actually, I don’t think any outsider is qualified to criticize the engine used by WHS, since they were the people who knew what they wanted to do and choose an engine that fit their needs.
Time will tell if their decision was correct, if people are still playing KCD into the future.
Modding should help, once the technical issues are resolved.

Sorry that I didin’t explain my point really good, I’ll try now (I’ve changed opinion).
We all agree that everything looks really cool on KCD when you post screen-shots on social medias with Max Settings and 4K resolution but: do we really need such a high photorealism when the game performs “shit on consoles” and “barely acceptable on good PCs”?.
Am I the only one that hates to reach half of his average fps while entering Rattay or fighting with 20 fps in scenes with “a lot” of NPCs in a small area?
I remember another post always here on this forum that was complaining the bad AI that NPCs has while fighting in big numbers because they act like “idiots” from a military point of view (and having good AI is a heavy CPU task which is not even implemented right now).
And plus we want to reach in the next sequel of KCD this type of fightings with CryENGINE?

I read it all (thank you for proving that there was a big decision behind the engine) and I can’t deny that it was a good decision back then when no one thought that this game would be successful to chose an engine with many things ready to use out of the box.
Now things have changed (after all of the copies that were sold) it is proved that there is a huge interest in games like this from the public.
So I’d suggest to take a lot of time and (yes you guys made me realize UE4 will not be the best for the future) start developing their own engine to handle everything they need, because from looking how KCD "performs right now I don’t believe in miracles for the next sequel(s).
And now the only suggestion that is left from my original post would be to create an engine using Vulkan API as the description explain itself on why it’s the best choice for future:
Vulkan is a new generation graphics and compute API that provides high-efficiency, cross-platform access to modern GPUs used in a wide variety of devices from PCs and consoles to mobile phones and embedded platforms.
Also Vulkan is intended to offer higher performance and more balanced CPU/GPU usage.
P.S. I’d prefer less photorealism and better performance :wink:

Developing their own engine, which would be made specifically for Kingdom Come, would be probably best solution in ideal world, but it would be very risky, expensive and time consuming.
And do we really want to wait another 6 or more years for sequel?

I would not be very hopeful for large battles in sequel, it just doesn’t seems possible on today’s hardware (without some very clever technology which would fake it somehow).
But we know nothing about potential sequel it might be planned for next-gen hardware (And we don’t know how powerful, will next-gen consoles be).

Cryengine V should support Vulkan:
http://docs.cryengine.com/display/CEMANUAL/Vulkan+Support+in+CRYENGINE
I don’t know if Warhorse plans to upgrade Cryengine V, but I guess they can implement Vulkan support in to Cryengine 3 if they would really want to.

But right now, we really don’t have any information about what is the cause of the problems (And I doubt developers will share this kind of information), so we are speculating wildly.

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In fact Warhorse already developed “sort of” own engine. Sure, it is Cryengine, but they have source code and all neccessary rights, and they modified it. I expect that today in Warhorse there is a few expert engine-programmers, because they had to learn it in order to do all the modifications. Theoretically they can keep what works well, and modify everything else, and it will be better then start a brand new ingine from scratch. There will be a big decission for KCD2 if to change engine or keep modifieing the current. Or maybe it is already decided and we only don’t know about it. But I am sure it needed/will need a long meeting and many headaches.

I think they should stick with pc and forget about consoles.

Evidently the vast majority of problems are the consoles, and reading these forums have convinced me that console players are the most unforgiving entitled people in the world.

Pc gamers know about their rigs and the limitations they have, and are used to turn down (or up) the graphics settings to make a game work. When a game demands too much of your system, it’s more like - “well. my next pc will handle this and then I’ll buy it”.

Many versions of consoles it seems. Some are upgraded. Some aren’t (by choice).
Game company tries to enhance or fix stuff and something else breaks. If they cut down on graphics quality to fix pop in issues - half the console players will start screaming bloody murder. With good rights. The other half will be happy because their game can run again. They are happy. With good rights.

Meanwhile pc players will taunt them by quoting game stats and frame rates. With good rights.

Nah. Drop the boxes and concentrate on what works. Proper computers.

EDIT: forgot to mention, that it would be most fair to drop consoles. Many many many times I’ve had to forego a game beacuse it was produced solely for consoles.
Dropping kc:d for consoles would constitute a fair and long needed revenge.

Explain why you think so

I’ve read the posts on the forums. I read elsewhere as well.
Most notably I read the difference in the phrases useds by posters.

That’s not much of an explanation

Unforgiving? That’s flatly contradicted by the number of players who continue to play even though patch 1.6 resulted in the worst performance to date

Entitled? WH chose the platform. WH issued no disclaimer in its console adverts. And Daniel himself apologized to a console user relative to 1.6 performance

Ever wonder why some of those changes were forced through?

Those changes … what’s the antecedent?

Patch 1.6 is a singular noun. So explain

dude.
I’ve seen some good post by you previously, but this is bull shit. I’m a PS4 player, and I’ve never once acted “unforgiving” or “entitled”.
I’ve had a great experience w/ KC:D, not suffering a fraction of the problems others have apparently had.
There are, without a doubt, countless whiny cry-babies here, but pigeon-holing them to just being console players is a crock of shit.
I’ve seen more than a fair share of PC player pussies crying about the most pointless BS- "Game broken! Immersion ruined! Why don’t my mods work on Patch X.X?!?!?!

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