Taking a hit: A change isneeded

Combat system
#1

So far so good with the development but I noticed a glaring issue that needs to be resolved:

Taking hits in combat should not drain stamina (the only chance you have at actually defending yourself from the next hit.) More often than not it results in you standing there, sword down like a blithering moron while the other guy hammers on you at will… I tell you from practicing martial arts that the most motivating factor to block a hit was being struck by the previous one. You are trying to design a “realistic” game and I am telling you now, if the guy is still physically able to lift a sword (no cut tendon, massive hydraulic decompression ect) then taking a hit is going to ensure that he has every motivation to lift his sword to defend against the next strike.

So I suggest a change. Taking hits doesn’t kill stamina. Swinging hurts stamina. Parrying/blocking hurts stamina less so (which is the truth.) This not only makes the combat more plausible but actually eliminates the current mechanic “if you get hit, even on your armor, with a training sword you might as well give up because you physically cannot defend yourself after the fact.”

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#2

I hear where you’re coming from… but the entire combat system is really designed around Stamina. And I think it works pretty well for the most part.

In reality, it could only take one well placed strike to disable a potential enemy or threat. Sure, armours and other protective garments by design reduce the likelihood of this occurring, but there remains the possibility never the less (regardless of how unlikely it may be). One strike to the liver on an un-armoured opponent for example… good luck doing anything but rolling around in agony for a few minutes.

I agree that there needs to be some tweaks to get the balance right. The impact to stamina at present for a single hit is significant, combine that with the ‘stun’ time where you’re completely vulnerable, and introduce a combatant who delivers sequential combination strikes… and you’re in a lot of trouble.

But I’ve no doubt that the final game will introduce a more refined and balanced system / mechanic here. It’s an early beta release that we’re playing after all…

Hopefully we’ll see a system where weapon type, in combination with character skill or proficiency level, statistics (strength, speed…), type of attack, and area of attack all feed into a calculation as variables to determine a base damage stat. This obviously changes depending on whether or not the area of attack is armoured or un-armoured.
The outcome being a hit to both health and stamina. With certain target areas producing greater impacts to one or the other… Sounds complex though, doesn’t it? :wink: …which is what a lot of people tend to forget.

3 Likes
#3

As thorn said the system is designed from stamina. It seems for me that I get hit about 3 times and die with quite a bit armor on, but it takes me about 6-10 hits to kill them. I think thats where my problem is currently with the combat system.
Plus too archers can see through so much brush i was running away from the camp and they shot me through soo much brush!

#4

It currently doesn’t permit even a minor degree of inconvenience or injury if an attack is done after a your stamina is run down (and you injure yourself just bumping into things)… plus the stamina is very easily lost (certain parries or strikes instantly empty it, 3-4 attacks run it down (especially for the weaker diplomat character state).

This is a lot less than I experience in Longsword where you practice a chain of 16 hews in a pattern as one of the basic training devices, and unfit and untrained I can easily drive a chain of 4-5 cuts or thrusts in a single flurry and return to a guard outside measure (cutting on the retreat) without being winded. Against unarmoured opponents, it really takes very little pressure (applied correctly) to accomplish a cut, and far less to thrust through. Whiffling against an opponent who is unable or unwilling to ward isn’t really all that appropriate.

#5

Against a foe who is unarmored it really wouldn’t take too much to disable a threat. This of course is why martial technique for unarmored fighting is actually quite different than armored. Against an unarmored foe one doesn’t need to strike hard, ect just do something as simply as lop a forearm in half and most likely the fight is pretty much done.

It all changes with armor though. The longsword is more or less useless against plate with appropriate padding underneath for example. You might with a GOOD stroke shatter a collarbone but generally your not going to do all that much, which is why technique to reverse the sword and use the cross guard arose. Essentially instead of trying to slash through the armor you switch to an improvised hammer.

Anyway the main point (highlighted for those who don’t care about the rest) is that this game isn’t one slash one kill even when unarmored. Its very design is set up so that the AI or the player can take a hit and still turn the fight around. That’s of course a basic concept in almost all video games as players are expected to make mistakes and not be perfectly awesome. The problem is that even though the death system is designed that way the rest of the combat system isn’t. You get winded more from being struck than striking, which is silly and essentially means that you wind up just standing there taking hits because you cannot lift your sword. Essentially the game either should have 1 hit against unarmored flesh = 1 kill, (not recommended) or resolve this issue so the HP system isn’t undone by other mechanics.

#6

Completely agree. But as you say, that’s not really the crux of the issue here.

And referring back to my previous post; I agree that there needs to be some tweaks to get the balance right. What I don’t agree with, is this:

Like a few of us have mentioned, the entire combat system has been designed based on stamina. So the integration with HP is fundamental to how the mechanic works… and I sincerely doubt that level of integration will change.

What I do believe you are absolutely correct on though, is the way in which that integration is functioning at present is certainly not optimal. The two meters of Health and Stamina should be interconnected, that’s not really the problem in my mind. It’s more about how they’re connected, and what impacts one or the other, or both accordingly.

That’s what needs to be resolved… Certain hits will drain stamina, no doubt. But not every hit. And the more blood someone loses I guess the less inherent stamina they’ll have also? (meaning it makes sense for stamina to reduce as your life blood does as well) But there needs to be refinement here for sure.

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