The Escapist under attack since 4am

Off-topic
#82

I have no doubt it’s there. I’m not ‘kidding’ myself about anything. So thank you for your “insight”

My point still stands, the gaming community doesn’t generally respond well to this sort of soap opera drama. It’s the wrong demographic for that. The demographic that watches All My Children or Mexico’s over the top drama shows are not the same people who are buying and playing video games.

Especially within internet users, we have systematically been teaching generations of gamers that senseless drama, internet trolls, attention divas are not a popular interaction with the community. We do this by collectively shaming them, ignoring them, creating short replies to inform everyone of the offenders intent such as ‘don’t feed the troll guys’. So when someone who develops the games we enjoy starts acting against the internet communities established idea of what is unwelcome actions, they will not only find themselves alienated from their own fan base but also alienate whatever studio they are working for as well.

In the case of the story above were one individual had an interview with a studio, then went out and trolled the crap out of an internet community, then the studio was no longer interested in interviewing them.
Their response was to blame the studio for it’s sudden disinterest in taking on someone who would damage their reputation with the gaming community. With out the gaming community there is no reason to make the games.

It’s far past time people start taking personal responsibility for their choice of words on public forums on the internet and stop blaming other people for the consequences of their own actions.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights grants us the freedom of speech, it doesn’t grant us immunity towards the responsibility for what we say though.

I myself being a very reasonable individual still find that I blame Bethesda in general for selling out to Microsoft, allowing Zenimax Online to make a horrible MMO that is an insult to their franchise, even though I know perfectly well that it wasn’t the game developers who had any say in it, and it was most likely marketing and the trustees who run the parent company. The point of course being, Gamers are generally very emotionally invested in our games, that is rather the point of it being a good game. When we see someone who works for a developer saying things that the gaming community finds offensive we relate that sense of offensive towards whatever company they work for. It’s no different for sports team, an owner or coach says something racist and they fire them just to prove the point that the vocal opinion of that one person doesn’t reflect on the franchise. The same holds true for a game developer, bad drama is just bad drama and no one wants to be stained by one troll who happens to work for them.

#83

Incorrect; they are precisely the same demographic and psychographic that engendered “viral”. “memes”, “doxxing” and “swatting” as concepts, not to mention the abhorrent notion that “humor” could or should involve ruining someone’s real life as a “joke” or worse, “to show them”.

Really? I’ve been around since before usenet opened and the advent of senseless drama, trolls, and attention divas didn’t really start until web-based “community” sites began promoting it as “fun”. In fact, we used to globally k-line (kill line), ban, and shun those who tried with things like KoTM as well as node-wide bans (well, ok, except for KIBO, but that wasn’t a targeted effort, just whomever happened to be there when he felt like going off, so we gave him his own usenet group).

Maybe you don’t realize it because you don’t look much further than outside your own preferred circles, but the perspective you have of “your groups” not only isn’t the only one, it’s not even the popular one; nor is the one that “your opponents” in this lil tempest in a teacup hold… for now. If you can’t see the strategy in withdrawal and can’t manage better than the current choice of being entirely reactionary, it will likely be the popular view within 3 to 5 years.

Sorry, I didn’t bother to read the rest; I mean, if you got this much wrong in the opening, it simply wasn’t possible for the rest to be valid.

#84

Here’s an excellent summation of #Gamergate in general. It doesn’t go into details, but creates a nice set of bullet-points & should be helpful for any who want help in explaining what it’s about to people unfamiliar with it-

https://www.facebook.com/notes/unprofessional-madman/gamergate-a-state-of-the-union-address/589970474458737

#85

To all internet users:

See this about the best methods of disrupting communications. Not saying that it is definitely used here intentionally, but by the looks of it some people in this thread that I shall not name seem to be using the stated methods.

#86

From Farcebook, that bastion of factual truths? I’ll pass. It’s vociferous hissy-fitters having a group hissy. In time, all things will pass, including this moderately depressing public tantrum.

#87

In other words, I know exactly what you mean. Good thing we’re not pointing fingers!

#88

One of the Journalists on the GameJournoPro list comes forward about it and where he thinks #Gamergate should go. This paragraph is right on the money-

“As far as communication goes… right now it won’t be improved and shouldn’t. First and foremost, the guilty individuals of impropriety need to take accountability for their actions. The mass wave of censorship, the public attacks from professionals on their own audience, and the culturally damaging articles all require public apologies from those involved. Until they concede and admit to their wrongdoing – in the same way that #GamerGate supporters are constantly having to take responsibility for anonymous and random trolls who harass and attack others – there’s really nothing to communicate about.”

2 Likes
#89

Moreover, the game journalists are using the “misogyny” angle to deflect the conversation from their unethical behavior, which is what spawned #GamerGate in the first place. It’s also a way for them to control the narrative. It’s a classic PR move.

This is the driving force behind that all.

#90

I am completely fascinated that it hasn’t occurred to anyone (seemingly) that the logical and unassailable counter to any “misogyny” assertion is to simply point out that the ENTIRE CONTEXT of the word is that the accuser KNOWS the intention of the accused… as it is clearly demonstrated this is not the case (nor could it be, given the admitted ideology of the accusers), the label cannot possibly be applied with any validity.

Instead, people continue to allow themselves to be pulled into all manner of drama and political theater as if either can or will ever bring more than continuation of the argument.

I mean, damn, if you genuinely incapable of ignoring the epic trollage of all this, the least you could do is focus on discrediting the argument at its root.

You know, attack the argument, not the people? Isn’t that what everyone keeps saying “they” should be doing? So how bout do it yourselves? It’s not as if that rebuttal in the first paragraph isn’t pristine and elegantly sufficient for it.

There are only four rebuttals required; two for each “side” of this debacle:

1 - The assertion of misogyny is flawed as it posits a deliberate malice on the part of game companies and game players alike that cannot be evidenced as causal (intentional) in nature. (Hasty generalization, fundamental attribution error, appeal to emotion, ad hominem, et al).

2 - The assertion of #1 being justifiable grounds upon which to engage a protracted cultural and ideological war founders by direct inheritance of the logical flaws and sheer lack of causal evidence.

3 - The matter of cronyism in media, while a valid socio-cultural or ethical concern, has been significantly conflated with collusion in this situation.

Cronyism neither contributes nor detracts from the argument as, like the assertion of misogyny itself, it cannot be demonstrated to be illegal activity within the corporations involved. Indeed, the news industry in particular is well known for its cronyism, especially in relation to acquisition, retention, and networking between organizations. (edit to add: Not to mention the incestuous publicity and paid placement/PR side of things… as previously stated.)

While it is obviously frustrating to many, there is considerable case law to demonstrate that editorial bias or even active slant within media is not considered illegal (don’t make me post case law… I’ll do it). The matter of whether or not it is ethical, while interesting, holds no actionable outcome so long as the corporation(s) within which such activities occur determines the behavior acceptable within their policies.

4 - Until such time as someone (or someones) pursue legal action in response to the activities currently under debate, the matter of their legality is both moot as well as irrelevant to the discussion excepting for those dedicated to the “entertainments” of political theater.

#91

Setting this in a separate reply as addenda to #4:

By “legal action” I am specifically referring to a suit (be it civil or criminal, against the corporation or the individuals) for false light invasion of privacy, defamation of character, libel, etc.

This may or may not be in progress; I really wouldn’t know as the entirety of my “following” of this is within the context of these forums excepting a review of major media outlets in support of previous posts.

#92

@Phydra - that’s exactly the point. Media know everything. It’s their job. You better believe them…

And it’s true, cronyism exists. What I have a problem with (and many people do obviously, too) is that media uses this to push forward their agendas. In this case it’s interestingly about cronyism, so the agenda is to distract from that discussion - and what’s better suited than to attack gamers with a topic where one person has decided to attack their culture anyway?

All you need to do is to say that person is right - well, and the media is always right because it knows everything.

So true, you can’t sue them for this. It’s not illegal. Cronyism is not illegal. Pushing forth agendas is not illegal (otherwise politicians wouldn’t survive, the Vietnam war hadn’t been started, both Iraq wars hadn’t been started, Marihuana hadn’t been banned in the first place and there was peace in the Ukraine already). In fact, as I posted already in that video (was it here or elsewhere?) in Germany journalists sued people (comedians?) who claimed (and proved) that this cronyism exists (it’s not been decided yet and they’re likely to lose the case, but they reached their goal: the video of that episode has been precautionary taken off the public television website).

It’s just that people are fed up with that behaviour. Not only in gaming. But here finally it attacks people in their chosen culture who have the means to collaborate and voice up (that’s the difference to all those cases above) and they know it is wrong and unfair. Hence GamerGate.

#93

So you’re saying that gamers finally figured out that their industry coverage is rampant with cronyism and payola? It boggles the mind. Truly.

Considering that most of these outlets are either highly niche or backed by far larger news conglomerates who are, I’m sure, happy to laugh all the way to the bank over the dissonance between “we don’t like this so we’re going to yell a lot” and “we don’t like this, so we’re not going to spend even a second of our time or money on your offerings until you get the message”, I don’t see this getting any traction, let alone the happy resolution folks seem to desire until they are willing to realize that talking about doing things doesn’t get them done.

For example - I have refused to buy or in any way support Sony for roughly ten years. That means none of their movies, none of their magazines, none of their games, and no business or money to any of their many wholly owned subsidiaries or split-ownership corporations. I can’t make the world agree with me that they aren’t worth support, but I can choose to withhold my own. (Given their current financial state, I’d say I’m not the only one who reached this conclusion.)

When I say “ignore it”, I mean it literally. Don’t spend your time, your money, or your energy on it. If you do that consistently and those who claim to feel/think the same do as well, you must know the silence would be deafening.

But see, the trick is to move past the notion that if you yell loud enough, the sound will do the work for you. It won’t. These corporations understand one thing and one thing only: Impact on revenue. You can’t bring the pain to their checkbook? They’ll just wait you out like they always do.

Believe it.

2 Likes
#94

Humanity has always done corrupt things. I assume then that this means we shouldn’t worry about anything being corrupt, because, well, everything is. I don’t find that the best reasoning to use. Since at least 2010 (Since Kyle Orland created the GameJournoPro email list, modeled directly after the JournoPro list that ended up getting some Journalists fired), the corruption and Ideological propaganda in games media has ramped up dramatically. There’s a difference between a flawed business and one that has become little more than a ‘Megaphone’ (as one prominent game journalist put it) for a Radically Distorted version of Feminism, one that will tolerate zero dissent.

Sargon of Akkad recently put up a commentated video of Alex Lifschitz’s Critical Proximity speech earlier this year. This is not some random pseudo-academic ranting into the wind. He is a key player in pushing this agenda into gaming & those are game critics he is speaking to, who are lauding what he is saying-

That would be the future of the industry, not just journalism if this agenda goes through. It’s also worth noting that Critical Distance, the organization behind this presentation, left The Escapist almost immediately after Alex Macris changed the site’s ethics policy. Apparently having ethics is just too offensive to these people.

#95

somehow reminds me … all the saying: the revolution eats her children …

#96

And I posted it elsewhere, but it’s extremely relevant after your post, tomtom-

Daniel knows what the equivalent will be for the games industry if this goes through. He lived it.

1 Like
#97

I disagree.

When I say someone is a pussy because he busts out it can be absolutely casual and by intention non-offensive, but I plant the idea that people sporting pussies generally bust out. The other party doesn’t need to know what I think, all that matters is the result.

Same goes if I say someone is a dick because he acts blatantly ignorant, just by saying this I plant the connotation. Since it’s most likely already there I reassure this connotation. It doesn’t matter what I thought or intended when I did this.

Maybe to get away from all that sexist stuff:

Take the word “nigger”. The root of that word is the latin word “niger”, which means black.
Back in the days the word first was a mere description of the factual situation. The connotation however quickly became that of “slave”, or better “non-citizen” and ultimately “worthless person (for society)”. This happened through the mechanic described above:
every time someone wanted to point out that someone is by any means “worthless” he called him a nigger. You could even call white people a nigger (which is just from the roots total bullshit) and make clear that you think he’s not of any worth.

So this is clearly offensive. I know that. Even although I know that it merely means “black”, I don’t walk up to a black co-worker and greet him with “Yo nigger, what’s up?”, because he could be offended - and rightly so.

That’s why he can call me a white skin or whatever, because there’s no bad connotation with that (at least here, in south africa things might be different).

#98

To be fair, I never considered the outcry to be worth it because these media outlets would change anything over it - obviously they won’t, for as long as it won’t affect their income. Why I consider it worth talking about and not ignore it at least for a while is to spread awareness amongst people. It sort of boggled my mind to discover how many people apparently believed media to be incorruptible and truthful sources of information up until now.

Other then that, yes, it’s as they say - vote with your wallet. And in this case, you granting clicks to those sites is that wallet.

#99

Again, it’s not about the industry not being filled with fallible, corruptible people, it’s about ramping up to a whole different level of manipulation & propaganda. This 10-minute video (and as Sargon does, I’d highly recommend watching Alex’s whole presentation) highlights why this is so dangerous-

This isn’t just some random guy either. Alex is a front-man for the Gaming Morality Force, they want to make the entire games media nothing more than propaganda mouthpieces or a ‘Megaphone’ as another one of them said. Alex himself also believes so much in ‘integrity’ that he faked his identity to troll pro-GG people for at least 30hrs a week.

#100

I think we agree here; this post makes me realize that I may not have been clear enough in distinguishing between “don’t hand ANYTHING to the sites and people that do this” and “just let it go”.

I mean the FORMER, not the LATTER.

Obviously the key to any socio-cultural issue is education, no matter what it is; that said, focusing on your immediate sphere of proximity is demonstrably more effective than trying to take on/convert/out-shout the media. Trust me when I say that if people really WOULD just quietly let their wallet do the talking, the media (any media, really) would fall in line faster than an alcoholic at a free, open bar.

Understand the relationship between your active presence in ANY manner at their sites and the benefit to their pockets (i.e., you’re actively supporting the continuance of the very thing you are attempting to fight). The Houston Chronicle (of all places) rand a series of articles that actually do a pretty good job of outlining the various relations in media.

I think if you read these, you’ll see what I mean when I tell you that very little short of actively ignoring any outlet that is doing something you disagree with is going to be effective (and even then, it only works if more people have the discipline to do this than not):

Now, if you’re noticing as you read these that there is an equally incestuous relationship between corporations and media, you’re right. So consider that for some media outlets, the support of a corporation ($$) will sometimes outweigh even the media consumer’s backlash. In these cases, one must switch targets accordingly.

Finally, if you prefer a TL;DR version of the relationship between media, advertising, and corporations, you’ll likely prefer this:

Want real journalism?
#101

I just got thinking - Why dont we just ignore the people who are Anti gamer gate?

If they don’t get the clicks they don’t get the much needed ad revenue to fuel their site and thus bandwidth costs. Thus making them look elsewhere for revenue.

That said - Here are some alternatives to Kotaku and others.

Cinema Blend - Link

The Escapist - Link

Niche Gamer - Link

Total Biscuit - Link

Clicking on Links to site such as Rock Paper Shotgun, Kotaku, Polygon, etc. is the worse thing that you can do. It fuels their ads thus money for them. It is obvious that they are not going to change by their actions… So lets hurt their wallets.

That said - Buy the games you want to buy. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Form your own conclusions about a game through a demo or a free trial. Do not give into the press hype. That said - Do not pre order. Remember Duke Nukem forever? Remember Colonial Marines?

Yeah…

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