The Muslim Brotherhood & The World

Off-topic
#141

It is not the religion or faith what prevents massacres (as the history of christianity overwhelmingly proves - please note for example the siege of Beziers or the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre), it is the rule of law that prevents them.

Why? Because you can not teach or influence a sociopath through religious activity / faith. (One of the most famous religiously educated christians was later niccknamed Stalin.) But you can restrict his evil deeds through the limits of law and - alas - through the law enforcenment.

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#142

The emphasis is on God AKA the creator of nature. The founders didn’t have doubt that there was a God. They also believed, which was common in the enlightenment, that faith in the church was dangerous and does more to hamper human evolution than to further. This is not contradictory. It’s also why

The first Amendment to the Constitution was written, because it was considered the most crucial.

“1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

They did not want the USA to become a theocracy. Or in other words another puppet of the/a Church. Because they too realized the large amount of corruption that can come about from established religions. However at the same time they did not reject the benefits of the belief (or in their minds knowledge) of a creator/god. In fact believing that it was the will of God that such a tolerant and progressive society of free people be founded.

#143

Nope. If it would be so crucial why it wasn’t included in the body of the constitution? It was amended in 1791 (but proposed in '89 of course).

They did not reject the freedom of religion as one of the universal rights of every man.

Maybe some of them. Jefferson? Highly doubtful. As a deist and admirer of Voltaire he would probably object to the claims it is possible to postulate “the will of God”.

Deism. The God was simply unimportant. Realize that it tended to be dangerous to publicly decline the existence of god in the 18th century. Therefore the substitution of god by “creator” and utter accent on the “will of mankind” etc.

#144

Well, I’ll give you one thing at least you have some information. Though are you unaware why we have a bill of rights? They were promised so that the U.S. Constitution would be ratified. These are promises made to the people that these would be added to the Constitution. So that the rights of the states and of the people would not be violated by the creation of a federal government. If it were not for the promise of the Bill of Rights then the constitution would not be passed. So to disregard them because they weren’t part of the drafted constitution is foolish, but it was the first congress who passed the bill of rights and (http://constitution.laws.com/who-wrote-the-bill-of-rights) gives you an idea of who wrote them. They also had to be ratified by the people.

Here are the framers, you know the one’s who wrote the constitution, BTW (source http://www.usconstitution.net/constframedata.html) over all a pretty religious bunch and not as well known as the founders.

Name State Occupation Religion ?

Baldwin, Abrahamn Georgia Minister/Lawyer CO Y

Bassett, Richard Delaware Lawyer ME Y

Bedford, Gunning, Jr.Delaware Lawyer PB Y

Blair, John Virginia Lawyer EP Y

Blount, William North Carolina Politician PB Y

Brearly, David New Jersey Lawyer EP Y

Broom, Jacob Delaware Merchant LU Y

Butler, Pierce South Carolina Soldier/Politician EP Y

Carroll, Daniel Maryland Farmer RC Y

Clymer, George Pennsylvania Merchant QU/EP Y

Davie, William R. North Carolina Lawyer PB N

Dayton, Jonathan New Jersey Lawyer EP Y

Dickinson, John Delaware Lawyer QU/EP Y

Ellsworth, Oliver Connecticut Lawyer CO N

Few, William Georgia Lawyer ME Y

Fitzsimons, Thomas Pennsylvania Merchant RC Y

Franklin, Benjamin Pennsylvania Inventor DE Y

Gerry, Elbridge Massachusetts Merchant EP N

Gilman, Nicholas New Hampshire Merchant CO Y

Gorham, Nathaniel Massachusetts Merchant CO Y

#145

But of course it was a tense political process. Nevertheless it is the original constitution what constitutes the US, not the amendments. (De facto it doesn’t matter, de iure it does.)

Oh please. Don’t be so absurdly arrogant. It doesn’t suit your religion. I wonder why you don’t mention the Treaty of Tripoli or Jefferson’s bible if you are so sure and educated.

#146

Well to end this tangented debate on a positive note. I’ll recommend a book Ameritopia

#147

wait, i thought you were gay. you’re christian?

#148

Looks like some people aren’t paying attention/keeping up (which is more likely since these conversations do go on a long time). I’m more Japanese when it comes to religion. AKA Shinto-Buddhist-Christian, and yes I’m also gay.

#149

Or any other self-reassuring bunch of typical political pseudophilosophy od US provenience. (As it seems to be exactly that judging from the glourious Amazon description.)

I would rather recommend a bit of deconstruction and the good old critical thinking. (Or simply entitling all of your antagonists “uneducated fakes”.)

#150

That is not contradictory. (Just silly.)

#151

Right, so avoid anything that might contradict your preconceptions of the world. That’s the intellectual way…oh wait it’s not, and you never claimed to be intelligent. I need to stop making these crazy assumptions about people. After all I should have realized your complete inability to make logical connections sooner, but as always I’m an optimist when it comes to people, always believing people want to learn, want to challenge themselves though I digress. So by all means criticize, berate, insult, insinuate to your hearts content. What a true seeker of knowledge and truth would have done would be to consider reading the book proposed by your opponent and offer literature of your own. Alas that was not the route you choose, you decided upon the route of the intentionally ignorant.

#152

it’s not the strangest thing

#153

I doubt that is the case.

Again I doubt China or North Korea are close to what we would call Europe.

First number: “I believe there is a God”
Second number “I believe there is some sort of spirit or life force” (not part of an organized religion or church going)
Third row “I don’t believe there is any sort of spirit, God or life force”

France 27% 27% 40%
Czech Republic 16% 44% 37%
Sweden 18% 45% 34%
Netherlands 28% 39% 30%
Estonia 18% 50% 29%
Norway (EEA, not EU) 22% 44% 29%
Germany 44% 25% 27%
Belgium 37% 31% 27%
Slovenia 32% 36% 26%
United Kingdom 37% 33% 25%

I don’t recall a unending stream of school massacres in any of those countries really. Among those countries only Estonia and Slovenia strike as not that well developed.

Now the statistics so all you have to do is read.

http://www.unicef.org/media/files/ChildPovertyReport.pdf (childrens well being)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country Again only Estonia ranks higher than the US.

EDIT:

Forgot foreign policies and a more global peace ranking.

#154

even if religon had an impact on those things (shootings, HDI) i think it’s save to assume that other things play a role too. So yeah don’t take religon very serious for the most part and they aren’t killing themself but both these things could be the effect of other circumstances.

Confucianism is sometimes refered to as a religion it is incorporated in the chinese communist ideogy IIRC. How is the worship of Kim il sung, Kim young il and Kim young un not a religon? With religion and god being poorly defined placeholders for anything “supernatural” or “superstition” it basically has no spesific meaning. What does it matter if there is a god if we have no idea how this influences things or waht properties this god would have. On the other hand you might as well call every ideology a religion as they all endores some values.

About schoolshootings: Yes religion gives people a sence of purpouse, something that those kids may have been lacking but clearly this isn’t even close to what “survifal of the fittest” means, so blaming this on atheism is like blaming everting stupid self proclamed christians have ever done (including catholics ofcorse) on christianity

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#155

I believe in the celestial teapot. It’s my religion so you should respect that and obey its strictures or I will have a hissy-fit! Possibly yak-buttered with a slice of lemon.

#156

Well, you know the bible was written a long time ago. It is totally up to interpretation. Also (as he said) he’s more just a little bit christian. And besides it doesn’t explicitly say “you shall not be homosexual” anywhere in the bible anyways.

yea that’s a good one. :smiley:
On youtube however, a christian fellow brought up a good point:
"If there was no god, what do you think holds the earth in place smart ass?"
Mind blown

1 Like
#157

Turtles

3 Likes
#158

:smiley:

However the “proton kinun” hypothesis was somehow vindicated by the big bang theory. At least if you politely forget the “akineton” part. So it`s turtles, definitely.

#159

if you disregard entire book of leviticus, sure. but then, why even be christian if you’re just going to pick and choose? better just call yourself a deist in that case

#160

@213 I’m not going to claim my way is right and you must follow it, but here is how I reconcile my sexuality and faith (which I did not always do) The bible teaches both history, and about God. Through the bible God’s nature does not change. When Jesus comes to earth he speaks on many things, but he never condemned homosexuals, and if you take that people felt then as they feel now about homosexuality, that means it would have been a topic at least in nearby lands, and he would have mentioned it, but he did not. You might then say “well what about Sodom and Gomorrah”

If you remember there was a lot more going on their than homosexuality (remember those moral safeguards I talked about earlier…well they didn’t have them) so because of their transgressions (against an Angel) and their deeply (one can expect) sinful actions (raping random people publicly) God destroyed them. So the only two times we hear about homosexuality mentioned as an explicitly bad thing was once in Leviticus (sort of in passing) and once in the new testament, by one apostle’s personal belief’s and all he did was make a list of sins added homosexuality to it and said “we once were these”. Though I can tell you no amount of self-loathing and hard core praying combo changed my sexuality.

Thus the later inclusion of homosexuality is logically flawed, and I can say the same for every homosexual Christian who torturers themselves into pretending to be straight. Can you imagine pretending to be gay your whole life? Not fun bro. Now knowing the nature of God we can safely say “That isn’t the life he wants for us”. He has forgiven us and this isn’t a new concept. It is in the bible already I cite Romans 14:13-19

13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

I hope this is edifying for you.

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