The nature of wounds and their effect on the body

when talking about wounds this could be interesting for you:
its taken from ‘‘the armor from the battle at wisby’’
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=3225
don’t get the graphic wrong, its an average of wounds on all skeletons. so it naturally only shows damage to the bone.

and some evidence what medieval weapons were capable of: (also from the wisby mass-graves)


as you can clearly see it was in some cases necessary to smash the skull of someone who had already taken much damage, and that an arrow in the head not necessarily kills. some of the skull damage may be most probably be inflicted by the dane-axe

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Jan ŽIžka, leader of the Hussites and also one of the best war leaders of all times (he never lose a battle), lost his second eye by arrow while conquering castle Rábí. He survived, become blind and still led his forces until his death.

About injuries in the game - i would be satisfied with something like system in Fallout - broken arms, legs, different animations, worse handling weapons in that case, etc.

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#Skeletons found buried in Stirling castle

Facial reconstructions of the knight and the woman:

''Skeleton 148: Male aged 26-35 years. Height 168cm or 5’7”. There is a 7.1% chance he died between 1324-45AD but an 88.3% likelihood it was 1392-1450AD. A robust man, previously examined and identified as probably being a knight. A blade injury to his forehead which had healed some time before death show he was no stranger to violence. He had also suffered injury to his two front upper teeth. The teeth died but would still have been in place at the time of death. The blow could have been from an accident, or a violent encounter. A corroded iron arrow head was found close to his spine. Unfortunately the bones of his spine are not well preserved and no evidence of any injury could be seen. He may have died as a result of a soft tissue injury or haemorrhaging after being shot by the arrow – but it is also possible that the arrowhead was a chance inclusion in the grave."

''The angle and nature of the fatal facial blow suffered by the knight may indicate that he was on the ground when he was struck."

"They were part of a group of 12 skeletons, some highly fragmentary, which were discovered.
Among them was a female, probably buried some time in the 13th century, who had two neat, square holes through her skull which were consistent with blows from a war hammer. "

''Skeleton 539: Female aged 36-45. Height 161cm or 5’4”. There is a 51.9% chance she died 1270-1324AD and 43.5% that it was 1344-94AD. Robust, with strong muscle insertions on her arms and legs. Her spine had a developmental anomaly, but this probably did not affect her in life. Skeleton 539 sustained several injuries to skull around the time she died. There are two rectangular shaped holes in the top of her head. The holes are larger on the inside than the outside, which indicates they were made when the bone was still ‘wet’ – had the ability to bend under tension. Skeleton 539 has 10 peri-mortem fractures to the right side of her skull, caused by two or more blows to the side of the head. The rectangular perforations suggest the attacker was above the woman – perhaps on horseback while she was on foot, or the blows to the side of her head could have brought her to the ground before the two rectangular penetrating injuries were sustained."

This gives details about the skeletons:
http://www.primarytimes.net/edinburgh_stirling_skeletons.php

#Pain

I have read some people say that if people are injured in a fight, they will scream and clutch the wound and just let themselves be finished off. That is a counter-intuitive thing to do.
If natural selection was allowed to influence human behaviour in fights to the death, we would expect there to be a fighting state in which the man does not feel pain and fights at his full capacity, with more strength than he is capable of using when calm, and with a sped-up brain.
People like this would surely have an advantage against people who give up at their first injury. It also seems nature has made us this way.

I used to know someone who knows someone who got into a fight with a mugger who had a knife. He won the fight and only afterwards noticed his tummy wound because he felt it was wet.

When not in a fight, paper cuts and bumping into corners hurts, but when in a fight, punches do not.

I have not included any references here, but I tell you that in every account I remember reading, the injuries themselves were mentioned, but I have never read of someone fighting less well because he had decided to cry in pain instead. You can be shot with a rifle and not be in agony, just poking your finger through the hole or asking someone if you’ve been shot.

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I’ve had my nose broken in a fight before. That didnt stop me, but let me tell you, I was feeling it for 2 weeks after!

Great thread, I was just about to make one myself about this very subject before I found this thread.

I’d love to see wounds implemented realistically in the game and have them alter the behavior of the AI.
Call me perverse but I would love to hear the bones on my enemies break, and them shouting out in agony afterwards, and see their broken limb kind of “ragdolling” about to a mild degree. I’d also love to see bleeding from/on the enemy, could maybe be a way of tracking wounded animals as well?

I want to see reactions to the things I’m doing, and the things the AI is doing. I want to gradually break down wooden shields, I want to be able to dent armors, dismember my enemies and break their bones.

I’d also love it if AIs had various reactions perhaps to some degree defined by their ranking within the game. A knight might not be wavered by the sight of his comrades being dismembered or wounded, but I bet if you were ambushed by a gang of bandits and cut off one of their comrades heads the rest of them might just flee.

And maybe have different ranking units within the military, like militia-men, archers, armored knights, ect all with their own unique subset of stats that could alter their behaviour, like courage, aggression and whatever you can think of.

I’d also, believe it or not, love to be able to survive a fight after losing a limb, a finger, hand or arm.

I believe the arrow that went through Henry V’s face nearly pierced something vital at the base of the skull, if the arrow had gone slightly further through him he would have been killed outright. I remember reading something about it quite a while ago

I feel you may need to differentiate between NPCs and the player on this one. Keep wounding specific areas of the body for enemies as this will add to the immersion. For the PC however Warhorse has to be careful not to frustrate the common gamer. A slice of the RPG community (myself included) would enjoy realistic consequences of wounding but the average gamer might not.

Was going to start a similar thread, but Ill just bump this one instead.
Last thing I want to see in Kingdome Come is 2 states - alive and kicking ass and dead. IMO there should be a few “wounded” states and a disabled state where the character is not yet dead, but cant fight.

I think that it could work for the game :wink: !
Maybe damage to the brain / heart should not kill the character at the first hit… maybe after 3 hits ??

I think that if we make the damage system too realistic you will have to be a master swordsman to survive the game, that an opponent doesn’t hit you once in a very critical lethal spot seems very unlikely.

True, but there are difficulty levels for that. While I enjoyed relaxed gaming on normal difficulty many people enjoy insane difficulties, which will be waaay more fun with (more or less) realistic wound behavior.

I can’t do anything but agree to that, you’re right.

Really enjoyed reading this! I’d love to see some of the suggested features in-game.

It would be a real shame if the game just had an HP bar or something similar, and I think you can see it in the combat update video, I hope it’s just a placeholder because it would break the realism. Probably you can find inspiration in the health system in Dwarf Fortress.

Yes, I’ve seen a documentary about this, it was very close to piercing the main artery in the neck and some of the nerves that control vital functions (i.e. respiration)
This episode was important because it forced a surgeon to invent the arrow extractor, which was used for the first time and with success on Henry V, this could even be an interesting way to approach the healing of arrow wounds in the game :slight_smile:

Would like to point out that lost limb == equal insta-death (unlike what we have in many video games). There really should be a “disabled but not dead” state.

Yeah, that does sound like a cool idea as a way to treat arrow wounds

If I can recreate the black knight scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, I’d call this feature a success.

@Dekssan I think the fallout-wounding-system is a nice compromiss between realism and fun. getting a wound on ur leg, makes u slower, on ur arm makes aiming more difficulty but ur not instantly crippled, while watching a video some jounralist was referring to an samurai game where you could loose ur legs and have to lay down, i guess this is too much extreme for still having fun

It would be awesome if the blood effects were similar to this: http://youtu.be/9Xrmgsz76Yc?t=43s