The politics in Kingdom Come: Deliverance

Story & Setting
#1

I watched this video and counted a number of flags:

  1. A black eagle on a yellow field. Symbol of Germany/The Holy Roman Empire? Or the coat of arms of Silesia? You can see it at 1:00, 1:40.

If it’s Silesia, then I’d imagine it supports whoever Poland is going to support as Konrad III the Old is of House of Piast (the Piast family was ruling Poland as kings before Jagiello established a new dynasty on the throne due to a marriage that led to Polish-Lithuanian alliance against the Teutonic Order).

  1. A red-and-white horizontal stripes. Arpad Stripes? Most likely a symbol of Hungary. You can see them at 1:23, 1:25, 1:38 and 2:04.

Hungary obviously means Sigismund, so they will most likely be the enemies.

  1. A black cross on white field visible on shield at 1:00. At 1:04 you can see a coat of arms of the Teutonic Order on the shield far to the left. You can also see a lot of black crosses on white tunics and flags (especially at 1:26).

Teutonic Order is involved and the protagonist is clearly shown as fighting them off. Possibly they’re commanded by the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire or by the Pope, or both as Bohemia is troubled by religious strife at the time.

  1. A white eagle on red field. Symbol of Poland? Check at 1:03, 1:15, 1:19, 1:28.

Does Poland supports or even lead a coalition to prevent Sigismund from claiming the throne of Bohemia effortlessly? It would make sense politically, but as far as I recall Poland’s support was less open than that, to avoid running into problems with the Pope, so the banner flying just like that strikes me as odd.

  1. A white cross on red field I can’t figure out at at 1:12 and 2:42.

Looks a lot like a flag of Switzerland. Sigismund of Luxemburg’s forces shown supporting the Teutonic Order? Or something else?

  1. A coat of arms visible at 0:19 and 1:00.

Berka z Dube? What makes me curious is that at 1:04 you see a shield bearing the coat of arms of the Teutonic Order standing side-by-side with soldiers wearing Dube’s coat of arms, but the perspective suggests they are on side of the Poles? Does it mean that participants will constantly switch sides?

  1. At 1:19 you can see Teutonic Order standing side-by-side with something that looks like a white lion on a red field. Bohemia? 1:27 seems to show the same battle, but in combat.

I wonder what level of depth of the political side of the story can we experience? To what level can we - if we can at all - influence what happens in game (story-wise)? To what level of political significance our own character can rise and what can he manipulate to his own designs? Is history limiting us (we can’t do anything, everything is scripted/we can, but it will only be flavor or have low-level impact on the overall story)?

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#2

they might just have taken random flags and heraldry for the trailer…

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#3

I’m impressed with the level of detail you’ve gone into here and the research you’ve put into the post :smile:

I’d really like to believe, based on everything else we’ve seen from WH to date; that the banners and heraldic devices on display (in battle or otherwise) will indeed accurately reflect the historical records on the subject matter and time period.

Whilst theres always going to be an element of creative license, you’d imagine that with the teams quest for authenticity and historical accuracy, we can count on them being very particular about what and how that’s presented in game. No matter what the scenario

#4

Perhaps, but given their attention to detail and the way they create art in game in the first place it’d be a waste of time for them to make and insert random banners and coats of arms into the game and make a trailer out of it, instead of using the real ones. Furthermore a lot of them makes sense given historical context of the game (1403, Bohemia). If coincidence is repeated too many times, then it’s not coincidence.

#5

Iam sure banners and heraldry in the finished game will be based on the specific groups/familis/persons they represent.

But the trailer is very old… and when they made it, I think it would have made sense just to use random banners, than use the time to find the historical banner to each and every group and family.

So my main point it, that I think you should not use the trailer as the bacis for exactly who will be in the game

#6

Silesia was mostly part of the Czech Crown Lands at the time, not Poland. It became part of Prussia only in 18th century due to absolute lack of strategic thinking on the part of Habsburg dictators and later after WW2 part of Poland.

Greetings from Silesia.

#7

12.08 (17.08.2015 on the site under “news”) is very old? It’s about a week old. My guess is they’d use something else, if trailer would somehow misrepresent content of the game and since they’re using it to showcast the story it’s fair to assume it’s a legitimate material for what we can expect from the game.

#8

I didn’t say it was part of Poland at the time, but I guess you’re correct that loyalty of Silesia belongs - de jure - to the king of Bohemia, not Poland, especially since Jagiello is not of House of Piast.

On that note I’ve found something interesting: “In 1409 along with his son Konrad IV he has been sent by the Czech king Wenceslaus (the IV? - H.) in delegation to Poland, which ended with signing the case-fire between Teutonic Order and V. Jagiello.” So Silesia might be on the side of Wenceslaus and not Sigismund’s. On the other hand, we have Teutonic Order fighting side-by-side with the flag of Bohemia against what seems to be Poland.

This makes me suspect that both sides (Sigismund and Wenceslaus) might be using same sigil, because both can claim to be “the true king” of Bohemia…

#9

Note that it is made by “Curse Entertainment” and not the devs…
And most of the video is from the original Kickstarter video… so back from January 2014…

That is why it is old.(a lot happens in 1½ year in a game development)
It was made to get people to support the project…

It is also clear that many are just placeholders… the flag at 1:19 don’t move at all, despite being held by a guy on horseback… and if you look closely Iam sure you can find other things that are not up to the standard we expect from the finished game… Again it is a movie for a kickstarter projekt… not a trailer for a finished game… So I think your should be careful putting too much weight on details like heraldry and flags used.

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#10

Still makes for some interesting discussion never the less :smile:

I wonder if @TobiTobsen can provide us a little insight

#11

  1. It’s made by Curse Entertainment, but the devs put it on their news page, so obviously they support it.

  2. The flag at 1:19 does move, even if a little.

  3. I never said it was a trailer for a finished game. Here you can see a trailer made for E3. It shows some of the same flags we see in the other trailer. I find it to be too much for a coincidence or placeholder theory if they keep same heraldry and flags around.

Is what you say possible? Certainly. Theoretically speaking a string of events might happen that can cause the game to never be finished. That’s a possibility too, although extremely unlikely. Does it mean what you say is plausible? The “worst” case scenario would be making another, better detailed heraldry and flags (assuming that the current ones aren’t detailed enough, as you claim them to be placeholders) and switching them, but that in itself doesn’t mean these details would be irrelevant to speculation on politics in game. Placeholders usually are there as… placeholders - subtitutes, if you will - for something that’s supposed to be there in the first place.

So can we move on from “don’t use the trailer as the basis for who will be in the game” (being nothing more than a discussion stopper, and for no good reason too) to discussing and speculating on who might be in game, what their motivations will be, whom will they support, etc.?

#12

  1. newspage is generated automatically.

  2. In some cases flags and coat of arms in trailers are placeholders, because not all flags and coat of arms are finished and in the game yet. But coat of arms will be historic correct in final game.

…Berka z Dube, very nice one. They will be lords of Rataje. :smile:

#13

Rataje? That’s very close to Kutna Hora. It’s an interesting city, because it “was one of the most important royal towns with silver mines in the world from 13th to 16th century and competed with Prague economically, politically and culturally”. I wonder if we will see some of that rivalry reflected in game and if we will be able to even take part in it… It’d make sense in a lot of ways.

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#14

And now you know why Rataje will be in this game :smile:

There is a reason King Sigismund raid this area in 1403 :wink:

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