And number of air craft. In sheer military power we outnumber them by quite a bit. They have a shit ton more tanks then us though. Pretty sure we have more troops as well but even if we don’t we have a far larger population and a far larger amount of kids coming up to the drafting age. Not to mention we have a far larger economy. The gdp of Russia is the same as California’s lol.
Well thats good news for us then because we are cutting military spending like no tomorrow. Which is why China will be such a big threat in the next 20 years. Im not really worried about a war with Russia i don’t think Putins suicidal. He would be fighting north America along with quite a bit of Europe. We will probably just keep building up our military to match theirs. We might see another cold war.
I also might add Russia’s population is actually supposed to decrease an utter shit ton something like 50 million in the next 50 years but the United States population is supposed to increase 50 million.
irrelevant if your fighting in ukraine . russia could put forward 70% of their armed forces to the fight we couldnt do that as the logistics would be too much and secondly where are you going to put all of it ? so in this case russia would outnumber NATO in the air hugely.
carriers in the black sea is near suicidal . the fact that you have 11 in the real world is irrelevant because can you imagine the sheer panic waking up to find a single Nimtizs class has gone down ? the aircraft carrier is the biggest strength and also the biggest weakness . the moment the carrier group loses its carrier it is standard practice to pull the entire fleet out . meaning potentially the US seeking a peaceful end
population is irrelevant its about projection of force and in the real world in terms of ukraine russia can field a hell of a lot more men than the entire of NATO. no country is going to enforce conscription in the 21st century unless its on the brink of being overrun and occupied .the hard truth is we could stop russia in a war in the east of europe . and russia doesnt have the force to fight anywhere else
What our carriers would be used for. We wouldn’t need them in the black sea for them to be in effective range to launch jets to fight the Russian jets if the fighting took place in Ukraine.
Well if Russia just decided to surprise attack with 70% of its armed forces they could probably over run quite a bit of Europe before we were able to get the bulk of our troops over seas.
There is very advanced anti air weapons aboard the carriers not to mention all the escort ships and the jets themselves. Our navy could probably take out Russia’s without huge trouble due to the size and how far behind their navy is tech wise.
Russia hardly has a bigger standing and reserve army than the United States does. We would have to add your country France, Germany and all other countries involved with NATO plus probably Canada and few others. I also wouldn’t say population is irrelevant. Bigger population = much bigger war effort back home(just look at the U.S during world war 2) Not to mention we have a lot more people coming of age to fight then Russia does so that means more troops.
This would pretty much be world war 3 so i have doubt there would be a draft. When you turn 18 here you are required by law to register for the draft unless you make all the exceptions. There has a been a draft in nearly every major war the United States has been in even world war 2 when many people already signed up. (while looking for how many people are able to be drafted in the United States about half the fucking links were how to avoid or skip the draft
-_-
Completely agree.
Isn’t just lovely thinking about all the potential places world war 3 could start?
Russia is one step from being a failed state. The only thing they have is oil and gas. If the prices of the two remain on the current levels, Russia will not be able to afford 6MBTs not to mention 6 carrier fleets. And if they keep stirring the shit up in neighboring countries, they will be left to play alone in their own sandbox. Even Belarus and Uzbekistan is getting it. Russia was a major power two years ago, but now it is on the best path to be only a major nuisance.
For fuck’s sake the Soviet Communists at least had the dignity to tell the truth when they happened to shoot down an airplane. All things considered, from the international point of view the current leadership is much worse than the communist one was. We all need to be aware of that. We must hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
Makes you wonder if Operation unthinkable had been carried out would Russia still be a pain in the ass today? Do you fear the red menace @snejdarek? God i wish we had liberty prime.
to have any effective range at gaining air suprioty the carriers would have to be near the mouth to the black sea if not in it or the Baltic sea . both points are in range of russia long range anti aircraft weapons . and the ships would be in range of the anti-ship missiles . and let me stress this and take note . missile counter measures are not 100% neither is anti-aircraft weapons if you need much proof of these look to the Falklands war . in the 21st century no ship is unsinkable .
the size of the US army is irrelevant completely . the entire army could not be deployed . you could push maybe 400,000 realistically at a push . russia on the other hand could mobilize reserves and deploy realistically a little of 1 million . we could push 20,000 . germany could push 15-20,000 france about 20,000 . turkey i doubt would even get involved the rest you’re realistically talking a division each so 9,000 . russia would outnumber NATO just about .
russia would have an advantage hugely in terms of logistics . aircraft they would win out right as we would be still in range of their entire long range range AA fleet plus ther medium and short could be brought into range pretty quickly .
within the black sea and Baltic they would outnumber your ships . the moment you lost an aircraft carrier would be game over for the US navy in real life as public opinion would then go as you realize it isnt some farmer with an AK anymore
no country is going to enforce conscription . and as have said before the US could send its entire army as you have to defend the USA and your military commitments around the world . where as russia just has to defend russia and the only real direction of threat is europe and turkey so they could place 70-80% of their force in to the theatre of operations .
you are being caught in the numbers game , your not thinking realistically the force that could be put forward .
russia did not shoot down MH17 dont even go there on that if you seriously believe that then jesus christ , its already been established the plane was shot from inside ukraine . who did it remains a mystery.
both ukraine and the rebels had BUK M1’s in the area . and the one pictured to have a missile missing was actually a Ukrainian controlled BUK .
also a ukrainain jet was confirmed to be in the same corridor as MH17 which in its self is a crime . the recordings released of supposed phone called were actually reviewed and found the file they were released in was created before MH17 was even shot down . as it stands there is not a single bit of concrete evidence point o a side that did it . it currently stands at there word vs ours .
no its not . far from it . the oil drop has affected all nations . it has hit russia hard but thts the nature of oil prices . gas they’re still selling in the same amounts . europe cant afford to not take russia’s gas as we have no other option currently
i think you have been listening to to much CCN putin has actually dont amazingly for the russian population . they enjoy more freedom than they ever have and until the oil drop there economy was growing as was and still is their military might
putin has no desire to take ukraine or even for a war . my personal stance is that its NATO poking the hornets nest . we knew damn well that supporting the overthrow of a pro-russian government and installing a pro-west and pro-NATO one would turn to a shit storm yet we still did it . this was common knowledge after the collapse of the soviet union the one do not touch nation was ukraine
not much sense in looking to the UK for help we are cutting our tanks down to 56 . 50 fucking 6 . just stupid our military does the best it can but jesus its been cut to nothing
We have around 1.4 million active troops and around 800,000 thousand in reserve. In world war 2 we had around 500,000 troops over in Europe and we were fighting a war on two fronts. You seriously underestimate the United States ability to be able to field shit tons of men. During a war like that the Numbers of both active and reserve would go up by quite a bit from people signing up. If there was a draft i would place the active at around 3-8 million. We only have 255,000 troops stationed around the world so that leaves around 800,000 active troops we could potentially send over. As for defending America we have the national guard for that plus another 800,000 troops in reserve. We already have several basses in Europe and have over 66,000 troops stationed there. Russia would be the attacker in this case so there would be the defenders advantage. So thats 20,000 from the U.K 20,000 from France 15,000 from Germany so that would make about 115,000 troops to hold off Russia’s 1 million until the bulk of the U.S troops could arrive. Canada would also join with around 30,000 troops. So that makes about 830,000 troops heading over to Europe to reinforce they 115,000 troops already there. That makes numbers virtually even and i haven’t taken vehicles into effect either. We have around 8,000 Abrams which right now are better than the Russians T90. Our air Force is also far larger than Russia’s. Russia already relies on Europe for many things and the U.S is one of the biggest producers of food. The United States has also shown time and time again that when a big conventional war starts it turns into an industrial giant with tons of resources to supply the war effort.
All this we are saying is of course just for fun this is just a possible scenario.
Not the U.S gas right now is cheaper than it has been in over 20 years But our retarded president who “is a man of the people and would never be in bed with the oil and insurance companies” is trying to veto that.
Ive also heard from many sources that Russia’s economy has been devastated from the sanctions. There economy is comparable to California’s and thats only 1 state in the U.S.
right first things first there is no way canada would send 30,000 when there entire force is no more than 60,000 around 100,000 with reserves .
the US would not issue a draft . you’re exaggerating the kind of war this would be . you’re going "WORLD WAR 3 AHHHHHH"
it wouldnt be a world war and if it was we would be doubly fucked as we would also then have to deal with china and going by your lgoic they could field over 300,000,000 men but realistically thats not possible . but they could given enough time .
irrelevant the amount of people sign up you simply are missing out on logistics there not in place to support a force such as that secondly if you even think you would send the entire us army over to europe then .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:241, topic:21032”]
Russia would be the attacker in this case
[/quote] no they wouldnt . look at a map and find ukraine and try and say that again you would be within range of all russian national defence weapons . all its land to land missles , all its AA weapons . all its airfields .
they could drive there fuel and food to their men , on the scale of the force you’re talking the US would have to put it on ships get it tto most likely france then drive it and what they could , the operation to supply that amount of men is huge .
right the 8,000 tanks … where are you putting them ? repair stations for them ? fuel dumps for them ? ammunition for them ?
13,000 aircraft . where are they going ? wheres there fuel coming from ? spare parts ? ammo ?
these 3-8 million men . where are they going ? food ? fuel ? ammo ? spare kit ?
no there enconmy hasnt been effected by the sanction hugely its the drop in oil prices that fucked it , after the sanctions there growth evened out so there wasnt growing but not shrinking either . dont forget the sanctions hurt us just as much as them
Canada’s active force is 120,000 men and their reserve is is close to 30,000. So out of 150,000 potential soliders they could probably spare 60,000 of them to go fight Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces
They also have many people of age to fight.
A draft has been issued in every major war. Even if they don’t issue a draft the amount of people enlisting always goes up during war in the United states. The average age of the majority of the population in the United States are around their mid 30s. That is a shit ton of able bodied people who would potential enlist during war time.
Lol China? Who do you think they would side with in a war? There closest trading partner who their economy relies on completely or Russia? China would most likely stay neutral during the war trading with both sides. It would probably be like the U.S in world war 1. They would trade with both sides while both sides would try to get them into the war for their biggest asset manpower. If that happened would could pull a Great Britain and make a fake letter saying Russia asked Vietnam to attack China
Thats not the Entire U.S army we would still have around 800,000 troops back home in reserve. As for supplying them we managed to supply over 500,000 troops in Europe and an even larger number in the Pacific.
I think we are thinking of different scenarios. My scenario was if Russia tried to take Europe. I was thinking the defensive line would be around Germany.
We had similar numbers of tanks in world war 2 and supplying them would be easier now with more advanced vehicles and infrastructure.
We could have our carriers just off the coast of Europe for Air craft resupply. There are also air bases and airports in Europe yes?
Again we have supplied a huge amount of men before. We have a huge number of farms in America not to mention millions of acres of fertile land just waiting for use. We also have an extreme excess of military equipment.
Is that a good game i have European escalation but it pisses me off how op infantry are. I have like 300 fucking tanks and a squad of 30 men with their little anti tank weapons destroys all of them under 10 seconds.
The reason its so cheap in the U.S is that we have had an excess amount of it for so long and they were charging extreme amounts for it and trying to justify it by saying there was a shortage which was bullshit. It went from almost 4 dollars a gallon down to like a 1.50 a gallon. 40 bucks to to filling up the tank to 20. Its funny we have way more oil up in Alaska than the entire middle east and the place they want to go in and drill its tiny but the fucking hippies keep bitching.
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:246, topic:21032”]
They also have many people of age to fight.
[/quote] thats means nothing NO country is going to carry out conscription in the 21st century unless its a matter of survival . so lets forget completely this "they have 60,000,000 people old enough to fight " because these forces dont have the kit to give them quite frankly anf the logistics support is not there . your living in coco land here . lets keep this imaginary war half realistic
look at russia for fuck sake they could actually put forward there entire force and be able to keep it fed and equipped the US couldnt do that anywhere near as effectively
irrelevant if the logistics is not in place to support such a force .
its all great having 30 million people going "yea send us there we will fight " if you cant feed , supply and get them to the battlefield
some facts for your here for every one combat soldier in a modern army there is 40 logistics troops supporting him . all the way from cooking his food to , medical care to making sure he has socks , to supplying ammo , to fuel etc
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:246, topic:21032”]
Lol China? Who do you think they would side with in a war? There closest trading partner who their economy relies on completely or Russia? China would most likely stay neutral during the war trading with both sides. It would probably be like the U.S in world war 1. They would trade with both sides while both sides would try to get them into the war for their biggest asset manpower. If that happened would could pull a Great Britain and make a fake letter saying Russia asked Vietnam to attack China
[/quote] russia and china are like the US and UK at the moment china would side with russia . they’re allies . china and the US are NOT allies
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:246, topic:21032”]
We had similar numbers of tanks in world war 2 and supplying them would be easier now with more advanced vehicles and infrastructure.
[/quote] wrong actually . its now harder to support tanks as there more high tech meaning they can rarely be fixed on the side of a road where as a sherman could be fixed with a bit of duct tape and glue haha .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:246, topic:21032”]
We could have our carriers just off the coast of Europe for Air craft resupply. There are also air bases and airports in Europe yes?
[/quote] no where near enough to support that amount of aircraft and the ones already stationed there
different times . europe actually had a decent size army then plus you had the british empires bases across
the globe . things were alot easier then because the tech was so low
same here its now £1.09 a litre . a barrel of oil is now only worth $50 which is the issue for russia because one of its main exports has lost nearly 40% of its value (might be a slight exaggeration ) however many other nations are feeling this as well .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:246, topic:21032”]
Is that a good game i have European escalation but it pisses me off how op infantry are. I have like 300 fucking tanks and a squad of 30 men with their little anti tank weapons destroys all of them under 10 seconds.
[/quote] i never said i was any good hahaha
Yeah so it would make sense to send about 1/4 of their military force and to keep the rest to protect the homeland.
That’s completely debatable and a war like this would be so fucking huge they might need to draft. I was mainly talking about how many people could be potential enlistees not ones who are conscripted.
Supplying an army with food, fuel and medical supplies is much easier than it was back in world war 2. Its as simple as flying a plane across the Atlantic or sending a ship. I doubt Russia would try to control our shipping lanes because our navy is far more powerful and larger than theirs is.
Support could also come from Europe as well remember we’ve done this before. Like i said Supplying is easier now and if we could supply over half a million men on both fronts in the 40s im pretty sure we could do it in the 21st century. In case you didn’t see me say this in my last post this is a defensive of Europe with the defensive line probably being Germany.
The numbers i gave out are really not that ridiculous. The United States has proven many times that they can pretty much go from having no military to having an extremely powerful well equipped well supplied military.
What reason would China have joining a war other than their alliance with Russia? Most of our big companies like Apple have their factory’s in China. They export 90% of their shit to us if they went to war with us they would fall so hard on their asses. Not to mention if they went to war with us Japan, Twain, and several other Asian country’s would attack China because they are allies with the U.S. It would be world war 3 and would be a valid reason for a draft. Im also sure Australia would be at war with China as well. So that would be a war on 2 fronts.
Yes but they are easier to transport places. Its also easier to get fuel to the tanks now a days.
We would probably construct more carriers during this massive war. I wasn’t implying that all the aircraft would be over seas i was just saying we have many more aircraft for backup if we need it.
The U.S has several bases in Europe right now and one in the U.K i believe.
putin has actually dont amazingly for the russian population . they enjoy more freedom than they ever have and until the oil drop there economy was growing as was and still is their military might
