#5630

Yeah in my opinion, it was okay to take it. The larger tribes would conquer the smaller ones, enslave them and take their land.

So i have no clue why we’re shamed for doing, what they were doing for thousands of years before our arrival.

#5631

@sirwarriant @thedivineinfidel

So, I spent weekend at my GF’s parents. Her father is a game keeper and he accompanied some German hunter that paid for a trophy hunt. The guy took a shot at a nice male deer specimen. The round went clean through the deer’s rear leg. Running away on three.

They then called some other gamekeepers with dogs and spent several hours tracking the deer, to no avail. Next morning they went out again and the same specimen came out of the woods again, chasing after a female deer. Didn’t seem too worried about the fresh gunshot wound.

I do hope that @warhorse makes hunting as well as injuries (especially by bow) realistic.

2 Likes
#5632

You keep bring this up . Which until now I have simply ignored because yes it’s true HOWEVER .

Without the "white man " these tribes would have never been exposed to such diseases and thus wouldn’t of been killed by them .
This is still a major issue today when we discover lost tribes in the Amazon etc , we find they start to die after making contact with the outside world . This is because their immune systems are not used to these new …germs , bacteria and such and often cannot fight them off so a simple cold to me and you can be deadly to them . Added to the fact they don’t have access to our medicines .

#5633

whats your opinion on the theory that the spread of smallpox was due to early biological warfare?

The theory is that one of the chiefs of a tribe approached approached on of the colonists forts they had previous been hitting hard (pushing settlers into the fort out of there homes in the village built around it) the chief supposedly asks that the fighting end and in response the colonists gave them blankets from one of the small pox quarantines.

#5634

Yes but that’s not genocide. The bubonic plague that killed millions in Europe came from Asia. But oddly enough i don’t see Europeans blaming them for it.
If i sneezed on you, and you died from germs i had, would you consider that murder or a tragic accident?

Well one of the main people behind that theory, Ward Churchill is a lunatic, he was fired from his teaching position at CU ( a collage in my state) for telling students 9/11 victims deserved to die, and were on par with Nazis. Many people in the same field disagree with. I quite frankly find the theory stupid as well.

Yeah but the main wave of diseases had already wiped out 95% of their population before the blanket incident apparently occurred… By the time we really started pushing west and fighting with the Indians, there were only small pockets of them left due to earlier plagues.

The British attempt to give small pox through blankets to the Cherokee, was reported as unsuccessful.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

Here’s a good read on that theory. It talks about it in depth and debunks it.

#5635

never said it was genocide . as for the plague , thats completely different , that was a global pandemic . what we did (i say we as it was the British still who made first contact with the tribes and the Americas wasnt the only place we did it ) was take a common cold and other common illnesses (which we could treat no issue ) over and spread it among the natives which killed many millions of them .

this was not on purpose of course , just down to our lack of scientific understanding at the time

#5636

It was a disease that came from Asia, which killed millions in Europe. How is that not similar? The only difference is, that’s not called genocide.

Of course i wasn’t debating this at all. But it was not a genocide, and i refuse to feel guilty over something that was out of my ancestors control.

#5637

its not similar because it was killing people in Asia as well . you cant compare the plague a global pandemic spread through rats . to a common cold ,

i never said it was genocide or said you or i or anyone else should feel guilty over it , as i said

#5638

It may not be the same, but its similar. A disease brought by foreigners that killed millions of people.

#5639

the plague was not brought through people at first . it was spread through rats then too people the rats came in contact with . these rats often got aboard ships .

now compare that to what we are talking about . where a healthy tribal individual comes into contact with a perfectly healthy white man . only to find the tribal man falling ill and dying because of that simple contact .

1 Like
#5640

It wasn’t usually spread through physical contact. Cattle, and trade contributed most of the disease.

#5641

Disease
Introduced diseases are the biggest killer of isolated tribal people, who have not developed immunity to viruses such as influenza, measles and chicken pox that most other societies have been in contact with for hundreds of years.

In Peru, more than 50% of the previously-uncontacted Nahua tribe were wiped out following oil exploration on their land in the early 1980s, and the same tragedy engulfed the Murunahua in the mid-1990s after being forcibly contacted by illegal mahogany loggers.
One of the Murunahua survivors, Jorge, who lost an eye during first contact, told a Survival researcher, ‘The disease came when the loggers made contact with us, although we didn’t know what a cold was then. The disease killed us. Half of us died. My aunt died, my nephew died. Half of my people died.’

#5642

Why are you linking these articles? I’m not debating that we spread disease to them…

#5643

then what are you debating … ?

#5644

What are you debating…?
I said the bubonic plague being spread to Europe had similarities to settlers giving disease to the Indians.

#5645

which it doesnt …case closed

#5646

It does have many. A disease which came from a foreign land killed millions.
It doesn’t matter how the disease was transferred, there are similarities, case closed.

#5647

So we agree it wasn’t genocide, but do you think the definition of Mass involuntary manslaughter would fit?

#5648

Well manslaughter is killing another human. Settlers didn’t kill them disease did.

#5649

The settlers brought the disease that killed them.

You can be charged with involuntary manslaughter by accidentally setting fire to a building killing its residents, the fire killed them but it was the human interaction that created the fire.

1 Like