The †roll Cave ®™

you clearly lack any knowledge of how a special forces or advanced recon unit operate .

firstly no ranks are acknowledged in the field , no ranks are worn . no ranks are mentioned over comms you would not pick out the officer unless you knew him personally and got close enough to recognise him . this is done to avoid the very situation you claim to carry out .

no ranks of any miltary unit even in standard units are mentioned in the field , if you did it wouldnt go down well as you make him a target .

its simply not done .

special forces do not operate under a strict objective , their objective is broad . they have far more freedom than a regular unit .

unless of course its a specific mission such as hostage rescue or taking a town or base etc .

but in the situation of an invasion a patrol would be placed in an area with the task of identifying military targets for future operations and engaging any high value targets , air defence , radar that sort of thing .

not go in gun blazing kill any enemy in sight .

thats the job of the conventional forces behind .

they wouldnt again the job of conventional forces .

it goes as follows

special forces deploy - identify targets for air strikes , landing zone to deploy troops , disrupt enemy communications , supplies and be a general annoyance

spear head units deployed - marines , paratroopers , armoured units

holding units come behind to hold and secure - bog standard infantry regiments

they were able to achieve this because as you said they were trained professionals , hathcock and his fellow sniper are the very kind of people you are suggesting civilians would pick off .

special forces operate in small units 4-6 men patrols , constantly concealed as hathcock was you would not catch them walking down the street my dear . you would not see them until they went loud .

Can a hunter not conceal himself? Again read what they did to the NVA company, who were trained soldiers themselves. A group of hunters could accomplish what Hathcock did. They merely stayed concealed in the brush and picked them off when ever they tried to move.

very large area very easy to conceal in .

where are you planning to ambush them ? where are you planning to attack them ?

special forces do not stay in bases , constantly move , constantly concealed . that is what they are designed and trained to do . the masters of gurrliea warfare .

50-100 special forces in one group … you lack a grasp on the situation

again you lack knowledge of the equipment carried , long range rifles will be carried by them , missle launchers , 61mm morters , light support weapons , standard rifles .

certainly dont walk across the open .

fields are death .

number one rule never walk across the open . stick to cover even if it means walking an extra 100 miles …

all special forces would operate in the same way hathcock did .

I wasn’t talking about taking out special forces officers in the field. I was talking about taking out officers of the army during occupation.[quote=“TheDivineInfidel, post:10717, topic:21032”]
special forces do not operate under
[/quote]

You need to send them somewhere, you can’t have them everywhere. Meanwhile you are losing soldiers everywhere where your SF are not present. And that being losing your most valuable ones, not those that are picking their noses and trying to figure out where the hell exactly they are.

You can’t hit what you can’t identify. And once you start kicking your whole occupation goes to shit since nobody will cooperate with, if they won’t rise up openly.

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What about when they’re moving, and they’re ambushed by concealed snipers. It would be bad for them and you know it.

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indeed you would loose conventional troops its war …
im sure you would lose a number of SF as well .

im discussing primarily the advanced stages of an invasion conventional forces would not be present yet

again you would not be able to pick out an officer in the fled of any regiment . one of the most basic rules of war .

no one is every refereed to by their rank , saluted or rank shown outside of the base .

if you was to look at a military patrol you would never spot who the officer was if there was one even with them anyway

that also goes for the civilians

first the snipers would have to know where to set up to ambush .

secondly a patrol will conduct every so often what is called a "snap ambush " they will stop get into an all round defensive posture and remain so for 15 minutes anyone following will walk into the ambush and good bye .

they sleep in harbour positions , these are changed every night to a different location , a well set up one you could stand 10 feet away and never spot it …

guerrilla warfare is effective against a slow large force not a small rapid concealed force .

yes for anyone they go against . this is bread and butter stuff for SF :smile: its exactly the kind of mission and situation these units are trained to deal with .

One thing to remember is that one out of ten Alaska residents are military veterans. Your bullet-proof supermen might be facing more than you realize.

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that may be so .

but again i ask you

where are you ambushing the SF ? alaska’s a big place .

its alot easier for the SF to attack their targets than it is for you to hunt them down .

in reality the situation would turn into loads of people attempting to hunt down the SF and the SF picking off people who got in there way and ignoring the rest .

your grasp of how this would play out is laughable .

they would be dropped in . likely by HAHO allowing them to cover a large distance into alaska silently and unseen . regroup and TAB to a pre-chose OP over a target . not a single shot fired . you would still be warm and cosey in bed .

they would watch their target for a number of days before either calling in an airstrike or attacking it themselves , mission complete they would bug out very quickly again covering as much distance from the target as possible .

you wake up to find say a miltary base partly on fire and a radar destroyed . where are you planning on ambushing this force of which you have no idea of their location ?

right your not , your going to scream "USA ! " load up on your truck and go out and hunt the cunts down , but by now they have gone 100 miles in an unknown direction and onto the next target the cycle continues .

multiple teams will be doing this so you wont have much of a clue whats going on . as you wont know what direction to hunt them in .

in the unlikely event you catch them in a major firefight as they attack an objective , you have a chance of whipping them out . but again if the SF deem the fight unwinnable they will withdraw or not attack the objective in the first place

you will dance to their tune you will be the NVA and they will be the hatchcock , @SirWarriant seems to think it would be the other way around .

your hunting them their not hunting you

Well i don’t know how to argue with you. SF are bullet proof, a dozen snipers suddenly ambushing a squad would do nothing, according to you.

I’m willing to give a little ground here and say it wouldn’t work as well against SF, but it would be completely devastating to a regular unit, and if you cannot even acknowledge that I’m done here.

Again no one is suggesting that, it’s just your way of trying to make us seem like idiots.

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THIS is where they would get into trouble. Watch their target from where? How are these people whom you said would be carrying mortars and other equipment going to watch a target for days and not be spotted, in a place where people spend more time walking the ‘wilderness’ than they do in cities? Better send your SF to L.A. if you are looking for a bunch of city dwellers who have no comprehension of their surroundings.

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This gave me a good laugh.

Painfully true, everyone who advocates for communism, and socialism over here always says that Europe is the best example of it working, but when ever you bring up how often those systems have failed they claim that they have never been tried.

Ameeericuuuuhh fuck yeaaaah!

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where are you going to ambush a small force that you dont know the location of ?

i have already acknowledged it would be effective a against a conventional force .

i dont question the effectiveness of gurrilia warfare against a conventional force , but gurrila warfare does not work against a small , fast , concealed and self reliant force.

i can assure you , you would not spot a concealed OP . unless you got everyone in a line and actively searched every inch for it but the moment you started that , the SF would abort mission and bug out before you found them .

let me give you an example .

Operation Barras , a number of british soldiers were taken captive by a gurrila force/gang known as the west side boys in Sierra Leone , they held them inside their base in the middle of the jungle , these boys had lived and fought and owned that jungle for years , so much so not even the UN would go into the area .

the british government begun planning a resucre mission …long story short , the SAS 3 days before the rescue set up an OP within a few feet of the base . they watched for 3 days the enemy play football feet away , they observed their ruotine , worked out where the hostages were held and at one point a member of the west side boys took a piss on the two SF soldiers at no point were they spotted . when the operation went live they themselves stood up and joined the assault .

the soldiers during their time in the OP do NOT MOVE , they lay still dead still , concealed , to shit or piss you role slightly to the side and piss into a bottle or shit into a bag and place the bottle or bag into your pocket/webbing .

you will not spot them and if you do …good bye .

have a watch

if you interested in reading about operation barras

Wow forget hunters and vets, i pity the Russian invaders who come up against these guys. :smile:

“50 cal bitch, 50 cal bitch” (aims the gun directly at the cameras man’s head)

I already said i would give ground when it comes to SF. But still lets say for shits and giggles one man did end up spotting them, and decided to think their ranks with a rifle from a concealed location. Would you not agree he could think their ranks considerably if they were un able to locate him?

if they was unable to spot him , smoke screen would be established and they would bug out . to a safe distance and deploy a drone which they would then find the sniper with and go after him IF they felt the mission was not compromised totally.

if it, was mission aborted . withdraw from the area and await new orders .
if one of them was killed or wounded a decision would be made if they are able to get the causality out , no emotion is used in theory in this decision . the mission comes first , if they cant , the body is stripped of all sensitive kit or as much as they can get off him and the body is left . hopefully retrived at a later date either by a future unit or by the locals/native military and returned through diplomatic channels

however its likely they will work out the direction the fire is coming from a suppress that direction and the patrols marksmen will get to work putting a round between the hillbillies eyes . or they will begin to advance to the shooter and take him out .

same thing if you managed to locate their harbour position (camp) they would not stand and fight to the death they would engage and withdraw .

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