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#1549

the people we faced in Afghan knew nothing but war their ENTIRE life to them it was nothing .

there is a huge difference between being able to shoot and being able to effectively win a fire fight, i was one of the best on the range in my training course when i joined which is why i was essentially told to go for the marksmen course and become a sniper but did that mean i was one of the best soldiers in combat ? no of course not so to be able to shoot and to be able to win a firefight are huge differences . which is why i say for the most part people wouldnt be up for it as you claim they would be . they may say they would but many just like to say and never really do .

i dont doubt for one minute the damage a successful insurgency can do to a large force , but the difference between someone who has been fighting their entire life and someone who goes to the range every few week is huge .

i have no doubt many would take up arms but not the millions that you are dreaming about . also the reason the taliban have been so effective is down to the lack of resources on ISAF’s part and the fact that we are so restricted in what we were allowed to do .

as for the comment on british people you should look at our history to see how our population deal with war on our homeland . dunkirk for example every man and their boat were straight over to help get our lads out . civilians are most useful in logistics . the truth is the US army wouldnt want you all out with your guns they would much prefer you too join up and fight in a proper force so that the entire defence is behind once spear head rather than a fuck load of people charging about the place playing rambo and getting killed

#1550

the cities would ultimately be the key to invading the US once they have the cities the country side is easy , just sit back air strike and fight on their own terms

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1546, topic:21032”]
there is no cover on the top of those mountains they would have to go above timberline. Im not saying its impossible im just saying it would be extremely difficult.
[/quote] lay on the ground facedown until the plane has passed they would be camouflaged and in artic kit .
special forces are trained to do the impossible .

#1551

@TheDivineInfidel

Seems that the all present cameras and unarmed cops you were telling us about can’t even prevent attack on a synagogue - a place one would expect to be especially guarded by police considering that Jews are the primary target of extremists nowadays.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/03/daniel-zimmerman/should-british-jews-arm-themselves-now-too/

1 Like
#1552

This stuff happens in every country .

Now imagine these attackers had access to guns ? Be a lot worse than some chairs being thrown around like we see in the U.S. a good few times a year .
Where the attackers start killing everyone .
And all the attackers of the incident you posted are now in prison and no one is dead .

We simply can’t afford to place every synagogue under armed protection

#1553

It was only due to lack of determination of the attackers that they haven’t been successful, notwithstanding whether they would choose guns or knives.

In any case, the victims were left to the mercy of the attackers. Fortunately this time, the attackers were more vocal than physical. This time.

#1554

There is a video of the incident and they were well prepared to defend against a knife attack , there were a number of them with chairs protecting the entrance and just people out side smashing the window .

Even against a gun attack they would of been faily safe as long as thy got the door locked quick enough . However the threat of a REAL loaded gun in London is very low . Majority of proper gun crime in the UK is in Manchester and up north

#1555

You mean the police?

#1556

Muslim attacks don’t really happen in the U.S as much as they do in Europe. The attacker will always go for the easiest victim. In the U.S you always have that chance that someone could be carrying a weapon or someone nearby could have one.

Those shootings happen in areas where guns are banned. No one has access to fire arms. Shootings always happen in blue anti gun states. Some guy tried to shoot up a movie theatre in Texas but guess what? Someone in the theatre was carrying a pistol and they stopped the shooter before he could murder anyone.

You told me earlier they were just farmers who took up arms to defend their land.

I don’t think you get the point of Guerrilla tactics. The point is not to get into a major fire fight the point is to hit them hard and fast and leave before they have time to react. The Taliban a who you praise as being so highly trained had to resort to bombs mostly to kill soldiers. Most causalities in Iraq and Afghanistan were IEDs.

Again maybe British citizens wouldn’t but American citizens are quite different. You’re told from birth to always rely on the government that the Queen will save you.

You’re not getting the point. These people don’t just “go to the range every weekend”. They start shooting by 7 and shoot their entire lives. They end up being able to drill animals at 1,000 yards or more by the time their adults.

I never said they would be running around going “Rambo”. They would use guerrilla tactics against the enemy. As for British citizens. Well lets look at your history. British people were always taught to rely on authority even in the medieval days. The monarchy will protect. In the U.S people didn’t wait for the governments help they took matters into their own hands. We could protect ourselves because we were armed.

If bandits attacked a British village you were defenseless. You had to wait for the nobles to send someone to deal with them because you couldn’t. In the U.S if bandits attacked a village they got shot plain and simple.

#1557

Until someone with a molotov cocktail shows up. And those are pretty easy to make. Then the people have to run out of the building and are left to the mercy of the attackers.

My point is that I understand that they have no chance of effective self-defense against well determined and prepared attackers in UK. That is the way things are in UK, and it is not up to me to dispute it. But still, one would hope that the most probable soft targets would be defended by the government, given that it is the very government that denies its people right for effective self-defense.

1 Like
#1558

The US has lost more people to Islamic terror attacks than the whole of Europe combined . You have one of the highest murder rates on the planet and that not including gun accidental deaths . You have well over 100 mass shootings a year . Your police force a trigger happy and often shoot innocent bystanders . I wouldn’t want my country to take a single example from the U.S. in any department .

Czech Republic has a good balance between guns being legal but ensuring only the right people get access . The U.S. sells them like a pack of biscuits .

You keep coming back to this comment on how the massacres happen in gun free zones but it’s irrelevent when their is no barrier between a gun zone and a gun free zone as the flow of guns between the two zones is not existent therefore it’s a stupid point to keep bringing up and hold no credbilty .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1556, topic:21032”]
You told me earlier they were just farmers who took up arms to defend their land
[/quote] yes they’re but point to the last year Afghanistan was not a war zone be it , tribal war , drug wars , Russian invasion , civil wars , Western invasion , ISAF security operation .

Many of the people there have never lived in a time of peace and are all well practiced on how to defend their farms from attackers as they have been doing it longer than you have been breathing .

You didn’t get my point . Being able to shoot is 10% of the skill of winning a fire fight the other 90% is in fire and move drills etc a trained force would out manoeuvre an untrained force and wipe the floor with them even if the untrained force had a better shot on a range .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1556, topic:21032”]
I never said they would be running around going “Rambo”. They would use guerrilla tactics against the enemy. As for British citizens. Well lets look at your history. British people were always taught to rely on authority even in the medieval days. The monarchy will protect. In the U.S people didn’t wait for the governments help they took matters into their own hands. We could protect ourselves because we were armed.

If bandits attacked a British village you were defenseless. You had to wait for the nobles to send someone to deal with them because you couldn’t. In the U.S if bandits attacked a village they got shot plain and simple.
[/quote] I live in a civilised nation where we don’t have the threat of bandit attacks therefore I have no need to arm myself against such attacks . the British population in every conflict we have been involved in have helped with logistics and the war effort in some form .

The U.S. military wouldn’t be grateful for your help . They would discourage it and encourage you to join the army instead .

You carry on believing the entire U.S. population would grab their guns and charge the invading force all you like but anyone with any sense will know that isn’t the truth because many would value their own life and put their trust in the U.S. army to fight it off and if the U.S. army failed then the militias would lack any real support and would fail long term .

Lastly guerrilla warfare is ineffective in fighting a special forces attack and is only really effective on a large slow moving force such as the ISAF mission in afganistan which has its hands tied by rules of engagement .

We all know the Russians wouldn’t give a shit about such rules and would instead blow the fuck out of your house the moment you fired a single shot :slight_smile: knowing the Russian prob nuke you :smiley:

#1559

Not even close. Quit exaggerating. 90% of our gun murders of gang related and are done with ILLEGAL OR STOLEN WEAPONS. A gun ban would not effect them in any way shape or form.

And you have thousands upon thousands of stabbings each year.

You mean like the countless times in India where British troops went in and mowed down innocent indians protesting? Sorry our police don’t do that police brutality cases are bullshit 90% of the time and black people just use it as an excuse to burn their town down.

I am 10 times safer where i live than London. Lower murder lower assaults, lower robberies, ect. In fact a lot of U.S cities are waaay safer than London is.

Will you stop spewing bullshit out of your mouth? Have you ever tried to buy a fucking gun in the U.S? It is not nearly as easy as your making it sound.

Those guns are obtained in the Gun free zones illegally so its completely relevant.

Using that as an example. I never said bandit attacks happen in the U.K now a days.

AGain you’re spewing shit and putting words in my mouth. Have you not read anything i said. I never said we would charge out at them with our guns. You clearly have no fucking clue what Guerrilla tactics are.

#1560

Many things like this happen but the media never reports on them.

1 Like
#1561

I agree. This is not a “newsworthy” story for media.

After the recent Uherský Brod shooting, many people in the Czech Republic started coming forward with their experiences with firearms. Most usually being in a tough spot, cornered by 3-6 apparent criminals who all reconsidered after seeing the firearm. No shots fired. Trying to dial cops would lead to instant beatdown.

Couple of months ago, I avoided fight for money that I just took out from an ATM by merely putting my hand into man’s purse. I could literally see the scumbag’s brain rolling the thoughts - “is he reaching for phone? Is he reaching for knife? Does he already have a finger on the trigger aiming at me through the bag?” He looked me in the eye and decided to go the other way.

Meanwhile my thought was “keep the poker face, he doesn’t know you left the gun home today.”

1 Like
#1562

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1559, topic:21032”]
Not even close. Quit exaggerating. 90% of our gun murders of gang related and are done with ILLEGAL OR STOLEN WEAPONS. A gun ban would not effect them in any way shape or form
[/quote].

5 murders per 100,000

Uk 1 murder per 100,000

So I say again you have one of the highest murder rates in the world and certainly in the devopled world .
Before we point to the Czech Republic , they actually have gun control to a good level and have a good balance . I would have no problem with such a system in the Uk

The more guns available on the market the more drop onto the black market .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1559, topic:21032”]
You mean like the countless times in India where British troops went in and mowed down innocent indians protesting? Sorry our police don’t do that police brutality cases are bullshit 90% of the time and black people just use it as an excuse to burn their town down.
[/quote] ohh go for it pull
Up all our wrong doing in history all you like doesn’t change the fact that in my dangerous country the population feels no need to arm themselves and in your safe nation people feel the need to carry guns to feel safe and free .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:1559, topic:21032”]
AGain you’re spewing shit and putting words in my mouth. Have you not read anything i said. I never said we would charge out at them with our guns. You clearly have no fucking clue what Guerrilla tactics are
[/quote]. I would consider myself a fuck load more qualified on commenting on the matter than you’re . Guerrilla tactics don’t work on a very fast and mobile , self efficant force like special forces

#1563

I agree I many incidents having a gun would saves lives but in many other incidents have guns restricted saves lives because guns are not so common and are much harder for the black market to acquire .

Every gun was legal at one point , they become illegal when they drop off the market and on to the black market . Reduce the overall market and you reduces the flow of guns finding their way onto black markets

#1564

So the U.K and U.S are the only countries in the world? You said we have one of the highest murder rates in the world which is bullshit. Yet you only pull up the stats for your country.
Fun fact the countries with the highest murder rates in the world Mexico and Honduras have a complete and total gun ban for all citizens.

You should really get this through your head. Ill say it nice and slow. 9 0 % of the gun murders in the U.S are gang members shooting each other. Take those gang members away and magic thats almost 8,000 murders less each year. The amount of legal guns on the streets do not make the murder rate go up.

Well stats speak for themselves. Im much safer where i live than you are and many people here carry guns.

Wasn’t referring to special forces. you keep repeating this.

I keep saying we would use Guerrilla tactics and you just keep putting words in my mouth. Guerrilla tactics is not just picking up guns and charging at people.

#1565

Sorry to say that, but he is right when it comes to the developed world.

That is only possible because UK is an island, and even then it works only in a very limited way. It does not work at all on mainland, as we can see in France and Belgium. Clearly, it wouldn’t work even in the US.

1 Like
#1566

Developed yes but not the world he’s exaggerating.

What people don’t realize about the U.S is that the states are very very different from each other. My state is very safe but states like California which has strict gun control have high murder rates.

A lot of U.S states have populations around the same size as European countries. So when you compare the crime states of the U.S with other countries you should really compare U.S states to other countries.
If you added the total murder rate of a bunch of European countries together it would probably be about the Same as the U.S.

#1567

http://www.inquisitr.com/1947832/arizona-walmart-shooting-police-shoot-one-dead-in-17-person-walmart-fight-at-a-cottonwood-parking-lot-video/

gotta love Walmart

#1568

Not true , murder rates are rated per 100,000 to counter your argument , I will reply better in a bit I’m currently stuck in traffic on they home .

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