This game and/or sequels would benefit from Co-Op Play

Well come on…have some imagination here. I understand criticism but it’s like you’re not even trying to think of solutions here.

Generally yes you’d support each other and work closely but it wouldn’t be necessary and you could split as necessary to farm for resources/achieve your own personal objectives. One would think that they’d piggy back off of Steam’s API and use friend lists. Given the nature of the game and punishing nature of it you’d generally pick a close friend or find someone that would commit to a campaign with you. Believe it or not in a completely separate genre there’s a franchise called Total War which requires major dedication where you can play co-op campaigns together. People are out there who are prepared to commit to an epic saga and actually are prepared to work together for a fun experience.

I can’t deny trolls would exist but I think the nature of this game would cause people to seek friends over being at the mercy of public trolls. On the flipside it’s a format that could cause people to form deep friendships through a deep RP experience like this game. Challenges also carry opportunities - you can’t just focus on the negative and I’d believe the structure of the game would weed out most trolls as there’s plenty of other games requiring less effort and time to grief in.

On the technical side - who knows? you’re just raising questions on what solutions to use rather raising dealbreaking barriers. I can’t see why both cannot have synched quests with synched completions. If you’re playing as a duo to achieve the same goals then why would you not have the same Quests and objectives ticked off at the same time? If it’s a sequel the secondary person could have their own minor personal quest as feature but not necessary.

Is it so narratively impossible for a secondary to simply be a ‘best friend’ that survived a great catastrophe, lost everyone they loved and cared about and simply joined Henry in his quest for revenge? Like…this isn’t hard stuff.

In saying that if you simply wanted MP to be a tacked on feature I think even that would be quite satisfying enough for many to include friends in on an already fun experience.

Again I understand constructive criticism but it seems to be criticism for criticism’s sake - It’s starting to sound like, I don’t like it so it shouldn’t exist, even if I don’t have to touch it. What do you worry about here? What’s the downside? You raise questions but all of these questions seem to have a simple answer. Technically would be a challenge only the Devs could address but even a small bit of imagination and thought seems entirely within the realms of possibility…what’s with the pushback?

Is it that it’s a feature you don’t like so it shouldn’t exist? That doesn’t make sense if there’s an option to completely avoid and not engage with it. And any narrative issues can simply be addressed by ‘MP isn’t canon, only Henry’s story is KCD canon’. Boom plot holes fixed.

I can’t name one and that’s why they should do it. There’s a massive hole in the market that I think people would love if someone would simply do it. I don’t doubt the scripting and narrative dialogue would be a challenge but the Devs are much smarter than me and I don’t think simply putting MP in story RPGs is equivalent to finding Dark Matter - I’m sure it can be done with good planning, resources and implementation.

This is just a suggestion but I’m yet to see any concrete counter to say that it’s a bad one.

I don’t even want an option. This would ruin a masterpiece and just waste important development time. This game is about single player story. You could ask whether EA make Dead Space with a Co-op mode, but Kingdom Come is not such a game.

To say that this feature in KCD is incompatible makes no sense. I’ve outlined multiple ways that would be enjoyable to many.

You have also not outlined how it would ruin it. It’s fine to throw claims but at least outline it with a why.

No, there is nothing to discuss. You have an opinion, but it wouldn’t work for this game and even if it would work, I don’t want it.

I like co-op games, but not in an open world RPG, it just doesn’t work. It’s not just RPGs either, you see it with most games that feature both single and multiplayer. One or both of them will seriously be lacking. Usually the latter.

How exactly do you see their combat system “smoothed”? I just keep seeing this and I can’t in all my honesty understand what is not smooth about it.

Sorry, perhaps I was not clear. Co-op and multiplayer are not options I do not want to see in a RPG game since it does ruin immersion. If it is an option then go for it, just not for me.

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You have valid points that you make for co-op games. It has been my personal experience that when a game is marketed as both a single player and co-op game it suffers in one or the another, if not both genre. I do understand the desire for co-op, but it really does not fit into every game design (IMO). Have you played Divinity II, The Original Sin? It is a RPG with co-op as an option, I enjoy the game but the game lost the immersion factor (for me) due to the co-op nature of the mechanics of the squad your put together. I need play solo, without a squad, but the storyline suffers when I do so. Others may disagree but that is my impression. have a great day.

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Thank you glansky.
I understand how co-op could increase the fun-factor, but not all games are primarly made to be fun. For example Super Mario Cart is fun, but a racing simulator is not. It isn’t even meant to be a “game”. And games with a depressive, devastating story aren’t fun too. Single player experiences should focus on what they are and not making everything for everyone.

Thats the problem with most developers these days, they try to please everyone and result in making a shallow game. Rather than focusing on specific aspects and developing them with more depth. They try to get a wider audience, in doing so they have to dumb down some mechanics and in the process alienate the real fans of the game.

I might go to the PUBG forums and suggest they make it singleplayer aswell.

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Increase the complexity of the game by 80%, and the development effort by 400% to increase the popularity by 15%. Could you have a fun co-op game for this period and this setting? Yes, but the sheer effort to do both versions in one wrapper would never be returned. Look at the reliability issues with the single player version alone. The resources of the company are far from infinite so why focus effort on such a moderate maximum return.

I think a lot of false assumptions are being made here in the pursuit of purist ideals. I believe MP with story RPG mechanics can be done and that would be a fresh direction. What I suggested originally by tacking on someone who has no narrative relevance would be good enough. I don’t think is going to be some technical nightmare scenario. Truly i think a team that masters the challenge of implementing a narratively relevant co-op experience however will bring the next RPG innovation that makes MP not just feel like empty grindfest sandboxes that typical MMOs carry but something much grander where everyone has some level of agency.

Glansky, funny how you suggest Divinity failed/didn’t work when it’s hailed as an unquestioned critical success? It may not have worked for you but that doesn’t mean it failed completely. I do have it in my library but I’ll look into the effect MP has on the story, but from what I read of the reviews, the opposite was true? Specialized characters used their own strengths in the team to get better dialogue outcomes in game - that would be cool to me.

Ilya - I mean in group situations you have 2 means of tracking targets, using change target while locked which usually picks the wrong guy to look at or using the mouse to face a new target - the issue is that it’s ‘sticky’ to each person making facing new targets difficult. I love KCD’s combat 1 on 1 but group situations feel much more hopeless than they need to be. I know purists will cry ‘but it’s meant to be hopeless’ but honesty, i’d accept struggling to keep up with attacks (which feels like natural difficulty) rather than simply struggling to face a new person (which feels like fake difficulty/failure of mechanics) and is the consistent theme people’s issue with KCD.

Everything else though I can’t really fault. AI seems to lag sometimes - enemies will just freeze on the spot for no reason sometimes…but that will get better with patches/other releases. I notice enemies seem to have unlimited stamina. If I’m on a horse circling them - they seem to be able to sprint for literally forever in full plate mail keeping up, I’m like…yeah…sure…

Chessqueen you talk as if you have any power and come across as arrogant. Opinions are fine but don’t be an ass about it. But if you’d like the same regard in kind, I’m not really sure what drug you’ve found to smoke by suggesting games aren’t meant to be fun. You’re confusing tone with a core concept of fun. Games can be serious but if they’re not fun, they’re a bad game. KCD is serious in many instances but loads of fun. It is an outlet, it is recreation - I do it for fun. It is not my job or responsibility.

A bit disappointing to see such a fearful response to such a simple suggestion. What started off as a simple suggestion is gradually turning into a circle jerk of purist fear mongering for a few. Noone suggested dumbing down any mechanics no changes to anything other than making it possible for someone to play along with you.

But I suggest if you don’t have a constructive point, I would rather you didn’t come just to drop your bile periodically - if you disagree fundamentally and have no point to make other than ‘I don’t like it for “reasons”’ then scroll on and find another thread. Glansky, Ilya, bones and Pongo are probably the only ones who managed to make their point without feeling the need to be condescending or arrogant. There’s no need for toxicity. I’ve seen a few threads on here descend into garbage and I’d rather address that trend early in the thread. Let’s keep the points focused. Thanks to everyone else for your insights.

I will hear anyone out if they make a respectful point. Still not yet heard a convincing reason other than Pongo’s regarding dev resources especially in context with the base level bugs and polish - which comes down to Dev experience level and resourcing. Heck, even if they didn’t do it in the first sequel, I think it would be a worthy goal to shoot for down the line.

I believe the new focus in the genre would have legs particularly if the level pacing was tuned right and amount of quests were there.

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Our assumptions are not false. They are facts. MP makes sense as an option in a racing game, but even here the singleplayer has to be the main feature. A singleplayer RPG is not designed for MP. We have said all. And I only play games that are not fun. They are no bad games - they are the best games!

…yeah sure…thanks once again for your input Chessqueen…

Not everyone has to agree with comments made, but you do not need to be insulting to those that you disagree with. You like co-op games, great. I do not like co-op games, that is my prerogative. We both have different things we like in a game. and we both can make comments and be respective. It is not that difficult to be civil.

Jeez Glansky read it again, I already highlighted you specifically as being civil and thanked you for it? Maybe take more than 5 seconds to read my post where I LITERALLY address people getting uncivil and you NOT being one of them. Moreover I said I’d take your advice and explore Divinity OS2 myself to see your perspective! How can I be more supportive of your viewpoint without fully agreeing with it?

I’m starting to think this community is full blown ridiculous - can’t even say that MP seems like a good idea without everyone losing their goddamn minds. Warhorse will do whatever the fu(k they want so how about everyone drop the delusion that you have any control over it.

You all clamor amongst yourselves over who can be more @utistic about who can keep their precious baby the purest.

Forget this special school. I’m out.

What we have learned from this is that no one likes the idea of co-op. Glad we got that out of the way.

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I am not trying to pick a fight with you, please remember that. You and some others on this topic have used language that is undeserving and we all need to remember that civility costs us nothing. If I misspoke then I do apologize. You are well spoken and your comments are not without merit. Co-op is a popular format and I do understand the appeal, but as I stated I find the immersion factor suffers. We are al friends here and we can speak honestly and frankly. Have a great day.

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Everything has to be co-op these days. I guess games like GTAV and RDR2 work with both as separate elements, not that i have played the online version. However those games are in a realm of their own.

I think the only bit of kcd that would work as a multi player is if they did jousting tournaments which could also involve some dice games or general medievalling that was entirely separate from the main story. Archery competitions, hunting competitions.

I wouldn’t like to see a watered down single player for the sake of the current co-op fad. I can see why people would want it, but i don’t think it would really work if you want the same quality of emotional involvement with the story and characters because there would always have to be a space for a potential other.

So, it is my opinion that I hope we never get a co-op unless it’s the kinda thing mentioned above. Personally I’d rather they concentrate on creating a great sequel.

Some people don’t like the idea of you playing co-op because it will ruin their immersion, or something.

More realistically, the reason there won’t be co-op is that most people don’t care, and it’s time and effort wasted. The same with VR. There was a very small, but passionate, “Wow, imagine how amazing VR would be in this game!” crowd, but they were the minority, and VR is trash, and most people don’t care.

The same is true of co-op. Most people simply don’t care. So why waste the time and money on it? Just one more thing, on a long list, that will need bug fixing.

There was that group that got the riderless horse MP thing going, so all hope is not lost, but so far nothing that actually works.