This game had more peak players than its competitors. Well done

As title says. At 95k most concurrent players on steam charts. It beat Witcher 3 by 3k players and it beat Skyrim by over 5k players. Well done team. You managed to raise the bar on what an RPG is and how should they evolve. You showed to any publisher who says “Oh but people are not interested in this genre.” Just how wrong they are and how much we the gamers wanted and needed a game like this. You, cuphead devs and Hollow Knight devs are amongst the people who truly know what gamers want and are able to put forth a product that lays the so called AAA industry to shame.

You managed to show that major publishers and gaming journalists have no clue about what gamers want. Without lootboxes or microtrabsactions you managed to put out a AAA level experience with a 10th of the resources and I am sure that with over 1 million copies sold, it was profitable. Really well done lads. Really well done.

5 Likes

Good point about what gamers want, but I would not take so much away from beating two admittedly old games for peak players.

I would rather have as my take-away that many more players than might be otherwise thought are enjoying the game to varying degrees, given the game’s foibles at this time. In other words, many gamers are willing to put up with flaws due to what the games does well instead of letting the game’s flaws stop them from playing.

Warhorse is in an un-enviable position right now: a flawed product that still has immense potential with a very vocal fanbase that is growing unhappier. While I recognize that I also believe they are doing what they can to correct it but the situation is going to, at some point, become untenable if not addressed effectively and swiftly.

using Syrim for an example, I recall many many quest bugs. I recall not a single quest bug however, in W3.

2 Likes

Well said sir. I’m extremely happy about the the product they’ve created. It’s a true masterpiece and once they release a few patches to fix everything this is worthy of the title of GOTY. I’m already on my second playthrough with 168 hours in the game. The day KCD was released I sat there for 15 hours just being totally immersed in this fantastic world. I honestly cannot recall when was the last time a game got me so hooked.

1 Like

It’s strongest point is the effectiveness of how the world is portrayed. I’ve played many games over many years and this is the first RPG in which I actually choose to never fast travel, because going from place to place is actually enjoyable as an experience.

2 Likes

it doesn’t matter that they’re old games. the peak player count measures the all time high.

and i’m not sure where you get the growing unhappier assessment from. why would we be growing unhappier when they’ve released 3 patches already? i think you’re projecting your own impatience onto the community and that’s just not right.

also, you may be looking back on w3 with rose tinted glasses, just do a quick google search on w3 quest bugs and you will see many impasse and impossible to continue bugs, which i have not experienced in kcd yet.

I have had almost no bugs and am extremely happy with the game. Stop assuming things.

There are bugs and performance issues. I could never finish one specific quest also my save games broke twice, once I had to restart a 4 hours older save because all others were corrupted and the second time I had to reload only an hour and a half. That being said the game for me is the best RPG I’ve ever played. I’m not whining I’m enjoying it to the max.

Exactly. Some players recognize the faults and still find the game to be excellent fun.

2 Likes

If WH keeps focused on quality, this will be more than lots of peak players; this’ll be transformative

3 Likes

Kcd is a buggy game but it sure is great and wonderful one, congrats kcd; i hope many more people can experience the gracious of this game… for the backers and warhorse studios congrats for supporting a great team and give birth of a game called kindom come deliverance… i hope we dont have to pay for the dlc, and why i couldnt found kcd with reg3 for physical disc because i live in asia ?, if theres isnt one i just hope if theres a dlc it come for all regions 1,2,3,4… i love henry characters… i hope kcd continues his journey and not changing to another character and loose all the story that build up from ground up… its just my opinion,… happy adventure mate

I’m not bashing what KCD has achieved in terms of its unique historical realism, and protagonist perspective. It’s not about raising the bar (Although KCD does do this to some extent). KCD has yet to win GOTY the way Skyrim did. It has yet to beat Skyrim’s record for single player RPG in it’s first week sales. If KCD had raised the bar, it would’ve had comparable sales rating like Skyrim in taking on the likes of Counter Strike/Dota 2/Player Unknown Battlegrounds etc) the way single player Skyrim held its own against popular MMOs of its day the likes of CoD & BF3. I’ll put KCD on the pedestal for raising the bar when industry stats indicate it has achieved this. And personally crown it the day it: 2) achieves GOTY AND 2) when it surpasses Skyrim in overall sales AND 3) earns absolute fan base devotion/dedication on mod sites like Nexusmods.

So it’s about overall longetivity aka re-play value (AKA MODS, SANDBOX FREEDOM IN GAME PLAY) that KCD may have in long term. Did it ever occur to you that this may be the reason why legacy 32 bit Skyrim (i.e. not the 64 bit SSE version)–with its 7 year old shelf life is still showing no signs of slowing down? Why it has retained its original Steam retail value to date? Why Skyrim is still holding its own as a veteran game, and still so high up in popularity in the Steam gamer stats list? That despite a brief fall in the Steam list (right when KCD was released), Skyrim has returned to its ranking in the top 30 as of today? Hell, even when KCD came out, Gary’s mod had YET to fall out of the top 20/100 on the Steam list–and it isn’t even a real game LMAO.

Were you aware that Dark Souls III (where I suspect a good number of the Kickstarer fan base comes from) has historically lagged legacy Skyrim in rankings these last 7 years? That DS 3 enjoyed an unprecedented spike in popularity about a week after KCD release? My theory: This spike in popularity was due to those hard core KCD gamers who beat the game early and/or were disappointed by how easy the game turned out to be. So they returned to playing the gritty hard core realism of Dark Souls III. Plausible explanation for why DS III was recently trending in the top 15/100 games for the last 2 weeks or so. This was during KCD 2nd week of release. At the highest peak where KCD beat even GTAO in the top 5/100, DS 3 toppled Skyrim from the top 30. But since then, this anomalous trend has reversed itself. Possible burnout has slipped KCD to 15/100 from the top 1o. Skyrim experienced a sharp upward popularity surge, recovering to 29/100. And DS 3 had an opposite trend, plummeting to 36/100 as of today:

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

IMO, a likely reason for these big ranking changes is many RPG minded gamers are now finishing up their first KCD play through. Or are perhaps postponing further playing due to bugs/awaiting the patch update. And so are now returning to their familiar haunts in legacy Skyrim/other RPGs. I know, because I’m a fanatic TES fan boy and one of the many thousands of TES gamers who temporarily stopped playing Skyrim when KCD was released on day 1. But have since put KCD on hold for next update. I’m right back to my heavily modded, legacy 32 bit Skyrim game. Basically picking up where I left off with the DLC level Beyond Skyrim: Bruma series. And if the KCD update doesn’t resolve my tech issues, I’m taking a significant break playing KCD. My time is better invested exploring tons of off Skyrim map quest dlc the likes of Moonpath to Elyswer, Wrymstooth, Legacy of the Dragonborn, and falskaar. Each of these DLC sized, off base map worlds retain the challenging hardcore/survialist game mechanics thanks to mods the likes Frostfall/Campfire, Wet n Cold, RND, Hunterborn etc etc. This is why legacy 32 bit Skyrim remains so highly addictive for an RPG fan like me to date. And where KCD will most likely lose me as a fan given the lack of dev commitment to releasing mod tools in the near future.

Regardless, a lot of this gamer transitioning has resulted in a KCD rank downgrade to #15 as of today. And dropped Dark Souls even further in the ratings. DS 3 only peaked at 17,037 players (v. Skyrim’s 20,986) as of today. If you factor in SSE (Skyrim’s bastardized 64 bit doppelganger twin), TES/Skyrim franchise really had a total current player peak of 37,099 today. Which would theoretically bump RPG gamer interest in playing this 7 yr old franchise to rank 19/100 since release in 2011. Very comparable to where KCD (in its 3 wks release) is now. And significantly higher than where Dark Souls is (and has historically trended) to date.

My point is your observation --while accurate–is very premature. The number of Skyrim based RPGers grossly outnumber the Dark Souls franchise. It wouldn’t surprise me if a good number of Dark soul fans were Kickstarter/early supporters for KCD. Because the game play dynamics (particularly the save game feature) reflect this influence. But IMO, this diversity of the fan base has resulted in a widely differing view of how KCD game play should be (if forum complaints are to be believed). So we’re going to have to wait to see how and where WH devs intend to take KCD game mechanic in the future. Whether KCD will be successful in matching Skyrim over time on the Steam gamer list i.e. Will KCD still rank in the top 10/100 games (a year from now)? In the top 20/100 in 5+ years from now? Where will it be in 7 years from now? Still holding its own in top 30/100 like Skyrim?

2 Likes

That is all very interesting but my point was KCD raised the bar on RPGs. And I stick to it. Sure it has balance issues. They are being fixed. And Skyrim has them too. In one of my vanilla Skyrim playthroughs i was doing over 2 million damage with a dagger. Bethesda never fixed that. WH is fixing this. The combat system is leaps and bounds ahead of anything Bethesda or anyone has and the progression system is much better than Skyrim’s. Don’t get me wrong, Skyrim has things this game doesn’t yet. Namely things to do outside of the main quest. In this game you can only become hunt master for now whereas in Skyrim you can join the army, the rebels, become a werewolf or a vampire or both, etc. But this game’s world is way better than Skyrim’s. The potential this game has and what it already achieves raises the bar for me. So much so that if a TES 6 comes out it will have to convince me to buy it. This is an RPG the way Skyrim will never be.

2 Likes

Skyrim is the only other game that captivated me. Other games are great, some really great, but at some point I start to get uninterested, even though there are many great games out there. Story-driven/open-world games are all amazing. But this one is the first one since Skyrim that hold my interest, and even more, it gave me greater reasons to keep playing as time went on. You improve your stats, and at the same time, improve your own gameplay by practicing. Potions - wow, what a fabulous idea. I never enjoyed making them in a game, this one made it fun. There is so much more. Yes, I’ve encountered many bugs, but the game is so enjoyable, I can’t help but look past them.

All games are great, but few captivate me as this one has. Kudos to the devs/team, I’m so glad I got this one.

1 Like

This is a very good and refreshing twist on the RPG genre. My introduction to the RPG genre was with graph paper and funny dice back in the late '70s. At that time, RPG meant ‘playing a role’, and the game master rewarded us not so much for min-maxing and raw numbers of critters murdered, but rather how well we dealt with playing our roles. Did a Paladin beggar himself doing the godly thing before the big battle? Well, the GM gave him bonuses to saving throws and damage. Playing the role was important, not just piling on pluses.

In KC:D, we are given a chance to play a role in a few different ways, and there’s a percentage of players that instead feel an ‘RPG’ means creating a paper doll, choosing a class, etc, and it’s too bad; they are potentially missing out.

Although KC:D breathes some fresh life into a genre that continually under-delivers re: the roleplaying aspect, it does so with mechanics that a lot of players will view with frustration. Personally I feel the ‘player skill vs character skill’ balance was wonderfully handled.

That said, members like Holt don’t type things up to impress. He types things up to discuss. I feel you’re missing on some thoughtful commentary by dismissing what he has to offer by waving it off as just “interesting”.

Wasn’t trying to change your opinion in that lengthy dissertation I previously posted. :smile:

We’re always going to disagree on that since we’re arguing from two different opinions.

1.Your point is based on a dev centric point of view. “Raising the bar” equates to dev accountability to the fan base. The WH/KCD dev produced a fan based influenced game, which has a framework capacity for unlimited growth. The dev is responsive to the needs of the fan base where optimizing/improving game mechanics and dynamics are concerned. So in your opinion, this makes KCD the bar raiser in the RPG industry.

2.My point is based on a fan base centric point of view. “Raising the bar” equates to fan base accountability to itself. The TES/Skyrim dev also produced a fan based influenced game. Which also possessed a framework capacity for unlimited growth (as proven over the last 7 years). So it’s the fan base modding community (not the dev) who should be responsive to the needs of the fan base where optimizing/improving game mechanics and dynamics are concerned.

3.Since KCD is still in its infancy, we really have to wait and see just how much of a game changing revolution this franchise turns out to be. Because the game is barely 3 weeks old to make any such claims. Most of KCD’s game mechanics (locked 1st person POV, realism graphics, MQ/Side quests & activities) were already present in vanilla Skyrim to varying degrees. A heavily modded Skyrim deck continues to surpass KCD in game mechanics/game play. More specifically, where added levels of difficulty when playing Skyrim on legendary difficulty with realism/immersion mods the likes of Frostfall/Campfire, CWO etc etc. All of these (made by modding community) add a degree of realism that is superior to what I’ve experienced in KCD so far.

For example, Hal has a digestive (and poorly implemented) immune system. But he can’t swim, die from drowning, is immune to inclement weather (i.e. never gets cold or sick from being out too long in the rain), has yet to see snow, can’t fish, perform black smithing to repair/forge his armor/weapons, can’t build his own hovel/mansion/castle, can’t get married, have kids etc etc. all while in support of the historical characters in the MQ?

It’s true KCD lacks the game play mechanics Skyrim has by default of being the newer base game.
But I’ll begin to believe the “bar raising” claim if KCD will offer more sandbox game play in the future. The way Skyrim did on game launch. Despite it’s realism, KCD is sorely lacking in a sandbox dynamic compared to base game Skyrim. Compared to some 12+ game factions the player could interact with in Skyrim ( 9 which player could join excluding 2 from DLC like dawnguard/vampires), KCD has zero (unless you count Henry joining the Bailff’s service). He can’t seek honest work as a smith apprentice or alchemist. So IMO, KCD as a base game is sorely lacking in content e.g. where non MQ factions, side quests and overall sandbox game play are concerned. So as a base game, KCD loses out on a variety of RP character possibilities. Europe was teeming with all sorts of guilds in this time. But a shortage of such NPC factions exist (tailor’s, butchers, armorers, Smiths etc). Also whatever proxies exist in KCD offer poor opportunities for player RP:

Example 1: the Miller faction being weakly implemented as an unofficial thieves guild. This should’ve been an official faction (the way the Thieves Guild was in Skyrim) with a proper side/faction quest line. This would’ve given players the opportunity to play a stealth based character. Instead of the warrior/fighter Knight in shinning armor the game locks you into from tutorial start.

Example 2: That mafia family of charcoal burners in their camps dotting the map. The game gives you a sense these NPCs are unaccountable to their society. Much like the Millers in that they stick together. And take care of their own if you’re able to reach a certain point of the MQ without bugs. So WTH couldn’t these NPCs have been made a more shadier faction? Like a shadowy set of murders for hire (similar to the DB assassins in Skyrim?) who provide radiant hit quests on NPCs who crossed them? Or to whom other upstanding town/village NPCs/guild members could turn for help in dealing with other guild/NPC rivals? That charcoal vendor NPC could’ve given Nenry an invitation side quest to seek out a charcoal burner camp before Skalitz was sacked. Player could’ve used this alternative to start the game once Henry escaped Talberg. Start the game as a lowly merc thug/thief/murderer who could gradually work his way up to the upstanding knight in shining armor trope it forces Henry to be.

Example 3: The heavily implied Stonemason/brickmason/construction builder guild. You’d think a bunch of side quests would exist with all the noise those NPCs make hammering around on stone, wood and things in general. You rarely get the chance to interact with any of these NPCs. The ones who you can converse with, don’t have anything interesting or noteworthy to say. Vanilla Skyrim bests KCD in this regard. Wasted opportunity to give the player a source of rumors and possible side quests.

Example 4: The bandit faction. WTH can’t Henry get the chance to join this in one of his wayfarer encounters on the road? Like being offered membership after he beats the typical 3 man gang of bandits who always ambush him on the road? He gets an option for unconditional surrender so he can accept this offer, instead of killing them every time? Would make for a nice alternative from being locked into his role in the bailiiff service

Example 5: Skill sets/Perks. It’s realistic for Henry to pick either highborn v low born perk, as the Nobility didn’t socialize with the peasantry in that period. But it would be even more realistic if Henry had the option to pick BOTH. Because people don’t stop being naturally charismatic --regardless of whom they speak to. So realistically, Henry should’ve had a random chance to relate to a lowly beggar/con man while say haggling/conversing in his travels on the road. This dynamic would’ve increased the player’s sandbox ability by allowing Henry join a cut purse/bandit/murder faction. Being able to do this – while in the Bailiff’s service–would’ve increased the degree of realism, risk and reward the player could experience.

So right there, these omissions are “bar breakers” IMO. Because unlike Skyrim, the game constrains my ability to sandbox around the character the MQ forces me to play in KCD.

In vanilla base game Skyrim after escaping Helgen, the game went 100% sandbox. It gave you the CHOICE to RPG as a civil war vet based on your experience following the Imperial/Stormcloak NPC in escaping Helgen. But it NEVER forced you into joining either faction once you got to Riverwood. The only push you had from the game was having to notify the jarl in Whiterun. Once you did that, base game left you free to go off and do whatever the hell you wanted. You DID NOT have to pursue the MQ as your ordained role of the DB. You could immediately go to Riften and become a lowly thief/assassin working their way to become the TG/DB Master. Or an adventurer/dungeon crawling/errand boy for the denizens of Skyrim. Or a Priest of Mara and perform the Temple faction quests. Or RP other numerous possibilities given the numerous side quests and non MQ factions which came in the base game. Like the Daedric side questline where you could RP an adventurer/daedra whorshipper. KCD weakly hints at relgion in a certain MQ related quest. But once Henry accomplihes this, it never comes up again—even though the priest NPC in the quest said they were disciples of the new teachings. This was a lost opportunity for a deeper side quest (since the KCD quest was based on a real life religious priest who was later burned at the stake for heresy). Lost opportunity to join a religious faction, in a time when the medieval politics were all about the Church & state.

When you add Skyrim’s vanilla HF/DG/DB DLC, Skyrim became opened with infinite possibilities for sandbox game play. And when you factor in the modding community, you see that Bethesda’s devs had nothing to do with promoting Skyrim’s longevity to date. It’s the modding community (NOT the dev) which has been the responsive party. It’s the modding community that has empowered, nurtured, and supported the growing/dedicated TES fan base over the last 20+ years to date.

So I’ll become a believer if KCD achieves GOTY. The way legacy Skyrim did for being a Single Player RPG in a MMO/FPS obsessed gaming space. If KCD still ranks in Steams top 20/100 a year from now, then I’ll seriously consider it belonging to the realm of “ground breaking”.

Most specifically, if KCD gains a bigger fan base demand for a universal mod platform (the way Bethesda was motivated to do in remaking Skyrim SE, making SSE & Fallout 4 available to console gamers) then IMO it will have superseded Skyrim in “raising the bar”.

2 Likes

Well said (minus the lack of quest bug. You’ve been fortunate in that case). But only time will tell if KCD is a true winner, or a lemon like No Man’s Sky

I will reply to your other post later. But KCD is at This point not No Man’s sky. The gameplay is not boring and it has a lot more depth. Even if they just released patch 1.3 for bug fixing and did nothing else the game would not be No Man’s Sky. That comparison is not fair.

The game already provides things that Skyrim sorely lacks and the world is much better developed. Yes. It lacks those sandbox elements and I mentioned that earlier but the important thing is, that is the ONLY thing it lacks when compared to Skyrim.

No, Skyrim offers fantasy… dragons, magic, etc. fantasy isn’t for everybody but there’s no denying its general appeal

If WH implements polearms, mounted units, proper story line with Theresa, dog companion and smithy (all things mentioned by WH itself), fantasy loses some of its luster. If WH puts in place medieval resource management, i can do without dragons, magic, werewolves and the like for a very long time. WH… that means $$$. I’d pay another $60 (or more) for that DLC in a heart beat

Perspective. PC Ultima 1986 retailed around $40. In today’s money, that’s $90. (100 then about 225 now)

I never said KCD was a No Man’s Sky. I said this game has the potential to be truly great–or devolve to the lemon that No Man’s Sky was. But only time will tell.