Troll cave II

[snejdarek]

I also find it amusing that you constantly criticize the decision to displace Saddam as being stupid, but you are all for killing Assad on the basis that he kills civilians, when Saddam killed over a million of his own people, and used chemical weapons on the kurds.

Yeah, I agree, Saddam should have been taken down during the first gulf war.

It may have actually not ended up in the fuck up that the second gulf war led to.

And what of the Russian AA systems in the area, do you seriously not see how this could escalate very easily?

As I said, this is exactly why no fly zone would end up into no fly zone for everyone, which is still better than current situation.

You were of the opinion that selling heavy equipment (tanks) to Ukraine would be a big mistake because it would escalate things even further, but you now you think shooting Syrian planes out of the sky, and Russian planes (if need be) is a good idea?

I am sorry but if you can’t properly understand my posts few lines above I can’t but think that you must be misinterpreting something I wrote a long time ago regarding the Ukraine, as I don’t recall being against sale of tanks.

Maybe like the fact that Ukraine has shitload of tanks already, just quite a few of them in bad shape (but they are entirely able to put them together themselves which also keeps the jobs they need so badly at home, unlike foreign purchases), so sending more of the same to them does not make much sense.

I made the case that Ukrainians need selected high technology that would advance their army, they don’t need heavy armor or small arms of which they have plenty already.

they will have nearly if not over 20 combat vessels in the area when that carrier group arrives . including the peter the great battle cruiser . an established airforce in syria fully supported with sophisticated AA . they are perfectly capable of having a good go at also keeping NATO planes out of the sky and any NATO carrier groups on the edge

For fuck’s sake I’ve been saying all along that it would very probably end up into no fly zone for everyone.

It seems you missed the point so let me rephrase it again, please read slowly. No fly zone for everyone means no NATO planes in the sky.

So yes, I am aware of that. AA systems of both parties would ground both parties’ planes. Which, as I said,

no fly zone would end up into no fly zone for everyone, which is still better than current situation.

all they want is to be treated as an equal partner

giving russia the respect

What the fuck does that mean? Please do tell me exactly.

moderate ? have you got fever ? who the fuck are the moderates ? ohh yea the moderate is assad right now

Don’t you see the fucking brackets?

okay so we dismantle assads miltary and get rid of him

When the fuck did I said that? I am getting tired of you reading into my words something that was never there.

No, the best hope is having Assad removed, hanged and succeeded by some acceptable “moderate” from his circle

I said THE BEST HOPE would be to hang Assad - succeed him with someone acceptable from his circle

I.e. keep the balance of force just change the face for one that can make a deal.

then what

Then Yugoslavia partition all over again, just this time in Syria.

[TheDivineInfidel]

It seems you missed the point so let me rephrase it again, please read slowly. No fly zone for everyone means no NATO planes in the sky.

So yes, I am aware of that. AA systems of both parties would ground both parties’ planes. Which, as I said,

That benefits no one except ISIS !! Without air support both the Iraqi and Syrian army would collapse turning Syria and Iraq in to a shit state with ISIS like going on the counter attack with devistating effects

[TheDivineInfidel]

When the fuck did I said that? I am getting tired of you reading into my words something that was never there.

You are talking about shooting down Assad jets thus destroying the largest advantage of his military force

[TheDivineInfidel]

Then Yugoslavia partition all over again, just this time in Syria.

Then you will engulf a sectarian struggle and a huge proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia .

I seriously suggest you read into the difficulties of the Middle East as I’m sure your one of those that thinks it’s all to do with western intervention

[snejdarek]

That benefits no one except ISIS !! Without air support both the Iraqi and Syrian army would collapse turning Syria and Iraq in to a shit state with ISIS like going on the counter attack with devistating effects

ISIS is like NAZI army in 1943. They will lose ground no matter what.

Planes were crucial six months ago. Now the local ground forces finally became effective.

Moreover, Russian airstrikes are actually impeding advances against ISIS lately.

You are talking about shooting down Assad jets thus destroying the largest advantage of his military force

Exactly. No advantage means need to negotiate.

Then you will engulf a sectarian struggle and a huge proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia .

We have that already. Let’s try giving everyone their piece of a land and peace to be there.

[TheDivineInfidel]

We have that already. Let’s try giving everyone their piece of a land and peace to be there.

It isn’t about land ! It’s about complete dominance and in some cases the complete anylation of the opposing Muslim faction .

You clearly have zero knowledge of the fight between Shia Muslim and Sunni muslims which is what the entire middle eastern conflict is about .

Exactly. No advantage means need to negotiate.

No no no . No advantage means extremists gain ground . [quote=“snejdarek, post:2269, topic:27880”]
Planes were crucial six months ago. Now the local ground forces finally became effective.

Moreover, Russian airstrikes are actually impeding advances against ISIS lately.
[/quote]

They have become effective because they are now receiving proper air support and direction from the west . On their own they would crumble

[SirWarriant]

[TheDivineInfidel]

Putins doesn’t exactly bring world peace but damn he brings to the table some brilliant photos and memes

[snejdarek]

[snejdarek]

[snejdarek]

I just watched some Ali G by breakfast and realized that the ONLY person with sane reaction in the interviews in the entire show was Trump.

And then comes this

[SirWarriant]

And then comes this

Is he not allowed to joke? Maybe Hillary would be able to fill up more than a high school gymnasium if she made them.

This is almost as bad as the time Trump jokingly said he was going to drop out, and the media pounced on it “He is not serious about being president” “He’s going to drop out”.

[SirWarriant]

[SirWarriant]

Yeah, I agree, Saddam should have been taken down during the first gulf war.

It may have actually not ended up in the fuck up that the second gulf war led to.

How exactly would it have turned out differently, why was it a good idea to take him out then as opposed to 2003? Unless American troops stayed there till the end of time the situation happening now would have just played out earlier.

That’s one thing i’ll hand to papa bush (although his administration told Saddam that the U.S would not intervene if he invaded Kuwait, and then went back on their word), he was more intelligent than his dumbass son, in realizing that an Iraq without Saddam would be a destabilized mess.

I am sorry but if you can’t properly understand my posts few lines above I can’t but think that you must be misinterpreting something I wrote a long time ago regarding the Ukraine, as I don’t recall being against sale of tanks.

Well i’ll go find the post then.

Edit:

So you told me the U.S needs to “stay the fuck out of it” because Putin is looking for any excuse he can to go to war over there. Why the change of heart regarding Syria?

So i was wrong about the tanks, but you made a valid point here. The Russians as pointed out by @TheDivineInfidel have a fleet heading towards Syria, and have troops and aircraft clearly “gearing up for it”, and shooting down Russkie or Syrian aircraft could easily ignite a huge conflict.

Hostile military action against Russia or their allies in an area swarming with Russian military is a bad idea, and you know it.

[snejdarek]

Is he not allowed to joke?

Jokes are followed by laughter, not agreeing applause.

How exactly would it have turned out differently, why was it a good idea to take him out then as opposed to 2003? Unless American troops stayed there till the end of time the situation happening now would have just played out earlier.

In first war, there was genuine uprising in parts of Iraq against Saddam’s power. The system was weak which could make transition easier. Possibility of Iran and international terrorist groups to abuse Saddam’s fall to their own benefit were marginal.

Hostile military action against Russia or their allies in an area swarming with Russian military is a bad idea, and you know it.

So i was wrong about the tanks, but you made a valid point here. The Russians as pointed out by @TheDivineInfidel have a fleet heading towards Syria, and have troops and aircraft clearly “gearing up for it”, and shooting down Russkie or Syrian aircraft could easily ignite a huge conflict.

Unfortunately, there are only bad ways to go forward in this situation. The issues is which of the bad ways to choose.

The main difference is that all Putin wants is to keep the port on the other side of Bosphorus, while everyone else wants to finish off ISIS and stabilize the country, in whatever shape or form.

[SirWarriant]

[snejdarek]

Looks like Russia just lost its closest EU ally.

Putin’s Support for Europe’s Far-Right Just Turned Lethal

[snejdarek]

Thankfully the factory that makes Armata went bankrupt.

When Medvedev was visiting countryside several months ago, elderly people were complaining that they are going hungry as their pensions are delayed/not payed up.

Medvedev told them “there’s no money, just hang on”.

Hopefully they will first look for money to feed pensioners before jumpstarting military production.

[TheDivineInfidel]

well that shut her up

[SirWarriant]

Jokes are followed by laughter, not agreeing applause.

SirWarriant:

Watch any time where he makes a joke in a rally, the audience cheers, if you want me to get proof just ask.

In first war, there was genuine uprising in parts of Iraq against Saddam’s power. The system was weak which could make transition easier. Possibility of Iran and international terrorist groups to abuse Saddam’s fall to their own benefit were marginal.

So there would have been multiple factions(rebels, and government) fighting for control of the nation as soon as NATO troops left? Sounds like stability to me.

You also once told me that as an American i should be more humble and not make jokes involving “sending Freedom to Iraqis” because of how many civilians were killed as a result of the invasion.

Unfortunately, there are only bad ways to go forward in this situation. The issues is which of the bad ways to choose.

Or you know, we could work with Russia and Assad to get rid of ISIS first, then afterwards we can rid of ourselves with Assad. You clearly have not learned anything from the past three nations that are now on fire due to us taking out their dictators.

The main difference is that all Putin wants is to keep the port on the other side of Bosphorus, while everyone else wants to finish off ISIS and stabilize the country, in whatever shape or form.

I think it’s safe to say the Russians want to get rid of ISIS as well. They have been victims of Islamic terror too. As for the U.S, if Obama and Hillary were so concerned about stopping ISIS they would have ramped up the airstrikes years ago, and would stop showering weapons and ammo into random ass rebel groups, because those weapons ends up in the ends of you know who.