Two Weapon Wielding and Rogue/Fighter gameplay, Sheathes and More

Two Weapon Wielding:
Im not expecting to be using two longsword and not really two short swords unless you where very experinced, Im thinking along the lines of Longsword/Dagger or Short Sword Dagger. There are specific dagger that where used like sword breakers etc, As a rogue fighter type build i would see character agility and manoeuvrability over the character being in full armour.

The dagger is used normally to deflect the enemy weapon so you can get at them with your sword.

Sheathe’s:
Also id like to be able to see the character i assume you will draw right handed id rather not draw from my Left side but from my right side, it is possible to do this with sword of the same length you would have on the left side. It also prevents you from if you got your shield pushed against you before you could draw from the left side, you wouldn’t be able to as it catches in the shield, but you could depending on the type of shield draw from the right.

3rd: Hiding Armour under clothing
I was thinking say we had a set of chainmail or chain mail armour that just covered the chest, i could put padded armour under it but also i could for example wear cloth over it, in some sense dulling the sound of the chain and also hiding it in some form, i think if we can do this with certain types of armour it would be good, im not expecting it to stop the armour its self from making noise as that would be very hard.

4th: Arrows and different arrow heads
Finally i would like opinions on if you believe there should be different types of arrow heads as different arrow heads where designed for going through different types of armour.
We have are standard broadhead
Judo Points which where for small game etc and so on
I believe having different arrow head types will be an important factor, especially for a rogue type character who if on the battlefield id rather not have in the frontline.

Wrong century.
Sword and dagger play wasn’t used in the time the game is set in.

I’d also appreciate if the sneaking doesn’t take silly proportions of thief.

Where do you get exact dates for it anyway, as i believe we dont have exact dates for anything that hasn’t been in recent years we just have ageing and so on.

Also i agree sneaking has to be done carefully with sizes and how low down the character can get etc

Errr…

Where did you get the idea that we don’t have any exact dates for anything?
Especially in the later medieval periods, we have ALOT of legit, historical documents, letters, statistics, letters of enrollment, paintings and much, much more.

Thanks to those documents, we even know little details like that when pointy shoes where in use, they weren’t allowed to be longer than a certain length - if they were, the points were cut off, and the shoemaker was sued. Sources for when certain helmets were in use are very common and reliable as well. And this is only a very small fraction of what we have sources for. Information we lack the most is daily life, but even in those areas, we have at least some sources.

Or my new helmet, it’s based on a museum original, and we know for a fact it’s been made between 1490 and 1495, and by whom:
http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/23213?rpp=40&pg=1&ft=*&what=Sallets&pos=31

If you need it to believe me, I can dig up and give you legit dates on when certain things were invented and in use. But please believe me: Sword and dagger combat was only in use from the 16th century and on. It never appeared in fencing manuals before that time. In none. There was simply no knowledge of that kind of combat before. Parrying daggers were not in use.

Also, you wouldn’t use a LONGSWORD with a dagger. Forget what DnD and pretty much every RPG since says. A longsword was a two-handed sword. Period. There were some techniques which might require freeing one hand (generally grappling or throws), but beyond that, the longsword was most always used two-handed.

The one-handed knightly sword is an arming sword. Or just “sword.”

And no, mail isn’t particularly figure-hugging. Keep in mind that you’re wearing a good bit of padding underneath to protect from blunt-force trauma of blows. And mail links being driven into your flesh. And mail makes a fair bit of a jingling noise when you move. So if you’re wearing it, it’s pretty obvious.

Probably the closest you’d have to “concealed” armor in this is brigandine (which is still obvious because of the rivets), or a doublet with leather or metal scales sewn into the lining.

There is a number of problems with your post.

If you can afford armor… you wear it. The “rouge type” who fights fully armored Knight on even terms simply didn’t exist.
You have to stab him in one of the few small openings in the armor… so he can almost just ignore you blade and kill you. (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh5lw2_ngc-medieval-fight-book-part-3-3_shortfilms look from 2:00)

You don’t use you dagger to deflect a longsword… simply to risky. If you for some stupid reason end up with only a singlehanded sword and a daggert, you parry with you main weapons, then use the daggert to bind the enemy’s blade.

Sheathe’s:
In the medieval period swords was drawn from the left side. illustrations show that this was the way to do it.
(feel free to show me any source of a righthanded person drawing a sword from the right side.)

3rd: Hiding Armour under clothing
if you don’t wear the padding it is not pleasant and the mail don’t work that well anymore. If you wear padding it can be seen because the shape of you body is effected in a unnatural way.
add to this the fact that medieval clothing was pretty tight fitted…
That said I have done it a few times, and people might not notice and the sound is not the problem.
But I still don’t think it should be an standard option. (but who knows might be relevant at some point in the story)

And finally, If you look at Medieval “fight books” dual wielding is rare… longsword or sword and buckler should by fare be the most common.

The sword and dagger combo was most commonly used in the late middle ages/renaissance period, you’ll know it as the rapier and main gauche and rapier used famously by french musketeers. The fighting style is not right for this period, so I doubt you’ll be able to use it, but if you’re on PC there may be a mod created!

Also I doubt it would be possible to draw a sword from the right hand side with your right hand, the blade is to long. Also no sabres in this period

Is that metre ruler at least 1kg heavy though? And drawing a sword straight up into your armpit if you need to quickly parry a blade is it?
Yes you can draw larger blades from the opposite hit, which is why most blades were sheathed there, also by drawing it across your body you can better defend/attack straight away. You should also consider that people today are a lot bigger physically than people 500-600 years ago.

Sabres were not used in western europe until the 1700s. Falchion’s were probably the closest thing you would encounter, however these were predominantly slashing weapons and would have little cutting effect on an opponent if he was wearing chainmail, as the purpose of this is to spread out the force of impact.

Was this scott alive in the 1400’s though? No.

Daggers in the early middle ages were used to stab at the gaps in the armor when you were grappling with an opponent, they were not used to parry with. Deal with it.

Also sword belts weren’t even worn on the hip, they were worn more like half way up the stomach area, to take the weight of the chainmail.

For that matter, sword belts seem to be a relatively modern development. Historically most swords were carried on a baldric which supported the weight of the weapon from the shoulder.

The only documentation I know of regarding swords being drawn from the same side as the wielding hand (IE, right hip for a right-handed user) is the Roman gladius. Because it was a very short sword. Once the spatha started to be used (first by the cavalry, before it in turn was adopted by the later infantry) they could no longer do that, so wore it on the opposite side.

All true. Just higher ranking soldiers (centurio, optio) wore gladius on the left side all the time. So it was something like status sign.

[quote=“PinTheImpaler, post:11, topic:5396”]
Sabres were not used in western europe until the 1700s. Falchion’s were probably the closest thing you would encounter, […][/quote] Maybe the “lange Messer” (i am not sure about the English Name) Technics does seem to have some similarities with the rapier an equal weapons, but i still would not want to parry swords or “Messer” with a dagger, that is just too risky…

The typical daggers (Rondel dagger), were, as mentioned before, not like a small version of a sword, but round, three- or four-sided, often not even sharp, but pointy and with no crossguard.
Blocking with that seems as healthy as stabbing yourself with it.

And i really hope there will be no sheathes on the back, like they have in so many games an movies…

That is simply not correct. Look at art from the 14 and 15th cantury… they used a swordbelt.

Also anyone assuming i would take on a knight if i wasn’t in plate in a fair fight is wrong im not going to take them man to man.

You get them from behind when there distracted with other prey, with a knife to the jugular or blade into the back of the knee etc

I consider myself as having an average build (1.76m, 75kg). I can draw a longsword with a blade length of 97cm from my left side. When I have the sword hanging vertically, it goes down to my ankles. So no, I don’t think you can draw a sword that long from your left hip, at least not efficiently. It will be a lot of shaking and pulling, and by the time you’ve pulled it, your enemies have either stabbed you or died by laughter.
The easiest way to pull it is to push the pommel down until the blade is horizontal, then draw it forward. I might make it to 110 cm blade length with that.
By the way: My sword is one of the longer ones, albeit among the shortest Liechtenauer models.

On the topic of sword/dagger I can only say what I’ve learnt in the Italian style: you block with the rapier, followed immediately by your dagger which is then used to bind the other’s weapon while you make your next strike with your own. Of course it’s possible to block with a dagger, but it’s really hard and should not be done if you value your body intact.

Greetings
Ferlonas

yeah, but they’ve got a pigface helm strapped to their head with aventail protecting their throat. i think you’ll probably fare better using this “assassins creed” style attack on some poor peasant soldier

The only real “dual wielding” commonly seen in Europe was a rapier with a dagger. This style of fencing however came after the period the game is set. You certainly never would use a longsword and dagger at once. What was very common outside of the battlefield was using buckler shields in your offhand. Bucklers are great, they are very easy to travel with and provide a great defense in duals. And I’m sorry but this isn’t fantasy land, a “rogue fighter” stands very little chance against a fully armoured opponent, you clearly don’t understand just how effective full plate armour is. Now there are records of “dual wielding” like you see in video games where people fought with two one handed swords. But these were only done for show duels generally put on by a particular fencing school because fighting this way was challenging. But there are much more effective fencing methods only using one sword so it wasn’t done in actual fights.

As for the chainmail, actual chainmail didn’t make much noise. The reason you think it’s noisy is because modern reproduction chainmail is awful and the rings are much too big, which makes them loose. Historical chainmail had much smaller rings that were tighter so they didn’t chink about with every footstep, also anyone who was looking after their chainmail would make sure it was oiled which would make it even quieter.

I didn’t really mean 1 vs 1 a guy in full plate, you surround him with 3 people at minimum and you get at his back which is less protected regions behind him.

But thank you for the advise yes i agree longswords by medieval definition i think by blade length, but yes you are right.

Also 40k FTW nice picture, black templar i see i used to play salamander’s

Here’s a Historical source for Lange Messer (I suppose an English name would be “long knife” or “backsword”) and Rondel Dagger:

Albrecht Dürer 1512
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/jbksak1907_1909/0462/image?sid=7dc05ae633d2567b937be64b207993b3

And this is a self-portrait of the Author:

Five posts on an internet forum about this:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7684

This was about a hundred years after Henry. It is safe to assume that people knew about sword and dagger fighting before the book was made, or it wouldn’t be in the book, but this does not prove that people had seriously thought about and done it in 1400. It’s good that both this particular book survives, and the author thought sword and dagger fighting was important enough to put in his book, otherwise people would say there’s no evidence at all for it being done in 1512 either.

so your evidence for it being done was a book made hundreds of years after?

i can easily claim the assault rifle was invented in the 1800s because a book was written about it in the 1900s, prove me wrong.

do you comprehend how stupid your argument is?