While we're talking about Arms & Armor

Gameplay
#1

This is after all an RPG, so Henry is going to have levels like any normal RPG character, but what does that mean for this topic?

Well I’ve read that some people came up with the bright idea of ‘‘leveled’’ items, like rusted, crude, broken, etc. So here’s an extension on that asking, do these items ‘‘level’’ with you? Like do you start with rusted weapons (no armor yet) and threadbare clothing at ‘‘level 1’’? (If you’re wondering about me putting ‘’ around the word ‘‘level’’, it’s merely because this is a different RPG where there are levels, but not in the sense of any other RPG where your stats automatically go up as soon as you level up. I’ll explain in detail below.)

Adding onto that, would your ‘‘levels’’ unlock new items as you progress? This is not to say you can’t walk around in plate armor or carry claymores at level 1 if you found it, but merely how the merchants operate their stores concerning you.

More it’s like this: you start with crap all considering your parents just got killed and you were knocked unconscious with your village being burned down around you. ‘‘Henrietta,’’ also known as the Miller’s daughter, saves you and you wake up in her house. Obviously you have nothing other than threadbare clothing (with 1 durability to show the clothes are going to fall off of you in a slight breeze.) and if you’re lucky she’ll give you a butter knife. A rusty one.

Now you’re free to roam Bohemia (within the games limits of course.) So you go and do your thing, but lets say you find plate armor, shiny and freshly forged. You put it on despite being ‘‘level 1.’’ You get a penalty for doing so since you’re not used to it, but it isn’t like any other RPG where you have to be a certain level to put it on. So you walk around in your new plate armor and see a merchant. What’s this? He doesn’t sell ‘‘high level’’ items to you (i.e. the plate armor you are currently wearing is considered high level, or more suited to nobility and not some random vagabond.)

From what I’ve heard/read, merchants sell by reputation and not level, so if you have lets say 750 reputation but you’re still only level 1, you can buy plate armor and freshly made weapons and wear them, but you take a penalty because you aren’t used to them which is where your level is concerned. Think Dark Souls in this respect. You can wear the armor or wield the weapons, but you won’t be effective with it unless you meet it’s stat requirement.

#2

Wouldn’t higher-quality weapons and armor generally be easier to use and move around in rather than more difficult?

#3

just make sure the player understands consequences and let them loose. don’t do artificial scaling. if player begins as novice and first thing he does travels to the nearest knight and starts fight, let the player die quickly and painfully. i feel like it’s better when the world doesn’t have a set level across the board that scales up, but has individuals who are skilled or unskilled using high quality to low quality equipment, and player himself must learn how he must act around these people. so imo, no need for level scaling. whether npc can improve themselves or train to become better like the player, i guess that might be possible, since they speak of the player being essentially like another npc and they can do things players do and vice versa.

from this, it becomes clear how to do armor and equipment. henry must have reputation and money for high quality, he only accesses money by doing deeds/missions/training/etc.

it all comes about naturally, organically, realistically.

6 Likes
#4

They should add studded leather armor to the game. Don’t you agree @Ambaryerno ?

#5

Maybe I missed something but I though that KCD will hav skill based RPG system rather than level based one.

I mean - will there be levels at all?

#6

Let me just say. It will be similar to Dark Souls which means that you can use what ever you find but you’ll probably get some kind of penalty. At least for the weapons… we’ll think about armors and shiedls!

#7

I think you should be able to buy anything that marchant offers you. And you have money for it.
With some exceptions, like:
Blacksmith wont sell you his best sword if you come wearing rusty armor. Because in his eyes you will die at first chance and his sword will come to waste.
etc.

Reputation should matter only in price and then to unlock some rare/special items that merchants have locked away for special cases.

#8

Hello, i think money and status is a good limitation factor. Well fitted armor was really expensive. Were talking here price of an village. Also there were low quality armors that you could get on battlefield from dead body’s or second hand. Someone who would have expensive armor could not be simply killed because he would be protected and even if you would kill him his armor would be recognizable. You would be really suspicious.

1 Like
#9

I like this approach and to the addition to that there must be some kind of crime system. Because 1level Henry can still manage to kill/rob that knight at night. People will realize that armor is stolen…

#10

@SirWarriant Are you TRYING to give me an aneurysm?

2 Likes
#11

This “Oh, I won’t sell you this sword because you don’t have the required reputation” is kind of a weird one for me. I have yet to see a salesman saying “I will not sell this Lamborghini for you although you have the necessary amount of money, because you came in here in a jeans.” :slight_smile: Even if that would be the case, I could imagine it in the manufacture of Praha’s best armorsmith, who sells to kings and high nobles, but not really in the vicinity of Henry’s. Not yet (in Act I?), at least. Money talks, after all.
How cheap an item will be, now that could be based on fame and/or speech skills.

#12

You’d best watch yer’ self, kid. Them’s fightn’ words.

1 Like
#13

A whole village! Man, the price of armor is like the fish that got away, every time it is mentioned it gets bigger! Used to, the “factoid” was that it was the price of a house.

Do keep in mind that back then, the polishing actually cost more than the forging. Not everyone had amazing mirror polished, blued, etched, and gilded armor. It was not uncommon for a run-of-the-mill man-at-arms to have a custom-forged harness, it just wasn’t quite as glamorous as the Kaiser’s… and it certainly didnt cost a village, don’t be silly.

#14

Ok i wont be silly here, here are some medieval prices from England. Firstly price of armors:
here full armor for one knight:

here is pricing for housing:

when we calculate for one Milanese high quality armor you could have 4 village cottages.

I was not talking about man-at-arms but a knight. And also i stated that you could get low quality armor. Also you could strip body’s on battlefield for armor. But you would have to go to a smith to adjust it, or get lucky finding fitting armor. I wasn’t meaning glamorous kings armor but high quality armor.

#15

You said “Well fitted.” You didn’t say “knightly” or even “pretty.” You could get the same exact armor as a knight for a fraction of the price, by simply not having it be polished. It functions the same, it protects the same, it is still high quality armor. But a good polish back then could cost up to 80% of the overall cost of the armor.

#16

I am quite curious, how come it was so costly?
Was it lot of work, did it require some special consumables or did it take a lot of time? Or something else?

#17

All of the above. You needed a lot of specialist equipment, water powered polishing wheels, specialist polishers, and a whole lot of time.

#18

That is actually how Prague Ferrari shop works. You can afford this style way of salesmanship you are selling something where demand is way higher than the supply.

#19

Total armor is listed as 16 pounds, that’s not “that” much when you consider the minimum revenue to sustain a men-at-arms of that period is listed as being 40 pounds.

The ready made Milanese armor price listed as 1441 while the Cottage is listed as early 14th century so nearly 140 years apart. Key in this is that it probably predates the black death which drove costs up a lot. So a 1441 cottage might be a bit more expensive than the one listed in that list.

Around Agincourt a mounted archer earned six pence a day. 240 pence makes a pound so acquiring 8 pounds would take 320 days of payment. That’s probably two or even three campaigns if you factor in their duration and other costs but it does show that ready made milanese armor wasn’t that expensive. If they were lucky they might be able to loot a place and gain a lot of cash.

1 Like
#20

Why would a knight buy unpolished armor? I thought this discussion was about getting top armor in the game and limitations. I only stated that it can not be bought easily and if the player would took it from someone it would be obvious. I’m not talking here about regular unpolished armor. Maybe i dint express my self correctly.

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