A damn shame

Gameplay
#1

Its a shame but after having spent 30+ hours in this game I think I have to give up trying to enjoy it. The world is the great and i really enjoy what the devs are going for here, but there are severe issues with the game design that just doesn’t work for me and turns the experience into one of frustration.

First of all, as others have talked about, the save system is insane… like… just awful. I understand that the idea is to make your choices matter and stuff, but what it ends up doing is making me waste hours upon hours of gameplay because the combat system is so unforgiving, and because the game forces you to constantly travel back and forth between your bed and your objective whenever any progress is made, or to spend a fortune on “save potions”.

I think I spent 2 hours just dealing with those 2 bandits when looking for ginger, 90% of which was riding there from my latest save point… it’s so god damn annoying I can hardly put into words my levels of frustration when I’m riding through the damn forset the for 10th time.
Just recently I also found out that only sleeping in your own specific bed saves the game… I found out by realising I’d lost 2 hours of progress because I’d slept in the miller’s bed instead of mine… which is to say, the bed 1 meter from my own… Atleast make any bed you sleep in save the game… I’m just done with wasting my time repeating the same things over and over again.

Secondly… The combat system.
I love the combat system, it’s great, and it turns combat into a mind game which rewards timing and tactics… that is to say, It’s great for duels… Sadly the game expects you to deal with groups of 4-5 enemies at once, which means constantly fighting the damn lock on mechanism just in order to fend off attacks from all sides. Now… I understand how this is realistic, that facing more than 2 people, no matter your skill level, is a death sentence… but with a saving system that sets you back hours upon death, and a game designed around you clearing entire bandit camps alone… it’s just nonsense. I’ve only managed to beat groups of enemies by sheer luck and through trial and error… trial and error which took me an entire gaming session.
It’s like the game doesn’t know if it wants you to be a one man army like in skyrim, or if it wasnt’s to focus on duels. All training I’m able to recieve is focused on duels… the combat system is tailored for duels… and yet, I’m constantly expected to fight 4-5 enemies at once.

The game also doesn’t explain it’s damage model very well, and i find myself constantly have to look up systems to understand what’s going on around me.

Anyway, enough ranting… I’m just so sad that this game, which could’ve been great is ruined by the worst saving system I’ve yet to experience, coupled with the most unforgiving combat design i’ve tried for a while… Hopefully these issues well be addressed.

And yes, I’m aware there’s a mod to fix the save system, but i don’t wanna risk an update corrupted my save file in the furture because of it.

5 Likes
#2

If you’re by ginger, you had oportunities to make enough money to buy a lot of save potions.

The combat system is fine for groups, read the tutorial, or go to the options, there’s this key to switch targets.
To add up, you’re given a bow very early, and the option to steal another two even sooner, with a bunch of arrows wirh it. Bow and arrows are made to take out targets, or at least wound them before they get to you. Killing 1 enemy or wounding it will make group fights easier.
Finally, you can recruit mercenaries yourself, don’t fight alone, unless you want to.

And i really don’t understand what there is to understand from the damage system, you have minor wounds and bleeding, bleesing you stop with a bandage, minor with resting or potions, is it to hard to understand?

By the way, i don’t mean to sound rude, but if you can’t deal with the duo from ginger, you aren’t ready to deal with armored foes.

#3

I’ve not had any problems… I literally side quested after they gave me my horse.

Leveled up got tons of blood money, got better gear and literally destroyed all Cumans and bandits in my wake…

I was level 14+ when I did the Vipers Nest. Having 14 strength plus Savage, Brute, and Heavy Swing perk I was killing enemies with 1-2 strikes. Hell I was even killing guys in plate armor with 1 head shot.

You just got to train, explore, get better equipment and do side quests. I’m hoping enemies scale up or get better because most enemies don’t even offer a challenge anymore.

#4

You can recruit mercenaries? I’ve played over 110hours and didn’t know that. Although not much story line has been completed yet either… perhaps that’s ehy

#5

For dealing with multiple enemies, you can hold the middle mouse button to unlock the targeting and free look.

I think they could have done it different though. I completely despise the targeting system. They very easily could have kept it to always be able to free look, and in order to change attack direction, do something like alt+look or something. Locking on one enemy makes it pretty cumbersome.

#6

“If you’re by ginger, you had oportunities to make enough money to buy a lot of save potions.”

That’s the point though isn’t it. I can either spend time making money to buy save potions, missing out on doing something actually worthwhile, or I can spend my time by wasting progress if i dont buy em. Either way the save system is actively punishing me for not wasting time dealing with a poorly through out system. I should not constantly be trapped between making progress and actually saving the progress I’ve already made…
Not to mention that it only goes to encourage wasting time going back and forth between your owned bed, just to save your game.

“The combat system is fine for groups, read the tutorial, or go to the options, there’s this key to switch targets.”

You can switch targets, but the fact that you are always locked to one target, means you get ganged up on instantly whenever facing more than 2 opponents. It’s that or you have to constantly back away which is hardly any fun.
It may be a learning curve issue, but considering how punishing any kind of experimentation is in this game, It’s just not fun to get killed again and again, only to repeat my last hour of gameplay.

"To add up, you’re given a bow very early, and the option to steal another two even sooner, with a bunch of arrows wirh it. Bow and arrows are made to take out targets"
A bow which my character is currently terrible with, and which I only have 1 or 2 chances to hit with before getting my skull bashed in and once again enjoy chosing my perks and riding through the forest. Also, unless I somehow develop skills on the level of legolas, I doubt I’ll ever be taking out 3 guys before the 4th reaches me.

“inally, you can recruit mercenaries yourself, don’t fight alone, unless you want to.”

Interesting, the game certainly has not explained this to me. But it’s good to know, thanks.

“And i really don’t understand what there is to understand from the damage system, you have minor wounds and bleeding, bleesing you stop with a bandage, minor with resting or potions, is it to hard to understand?”

That’s not what I mean. The fact that piercing deals more damage to one kind of armor, blunt more to others. Honestly it’s a minor thing that wasn’t explained very well, one on a long list of interesting game mechanics which are either barely presented at all, or at best quickly glanced over.

“By the way, i don’t mean to sound rude, but if you can’t deal with the duo from ginger, you aren’t ready to deal with armored foes.”

It wasn’t their armor that was the problem, the problem was that fighting two people proved extremely difficult. I wouldn’t mind it so much if I didn’t take my hours to work out a sensible approach… whenever I do anything in this game I’m super paranoid because if i die I have to repeat stuff again and again and again… It’s just not fun.

Again… I really want to enjoy myself and to immerse myself in the world… but the game is making it impossible for me.

oh and a last thing ^^ The fact that I can’t rebind the “esc” key function is annoying, it’s an inconvenient button to have to press to often.

#7

Lol, 110 hours and hardly any storyline?

#8

Interesting. See, i quickly discovered that the main quest was used to present various gameplay features, and since I was already struggling i thought I’d stick with it make make sure I had all the knowledge I’d need. I’ve only done a little side quest stuff, so perhaps that’d help me with the combat.

But really… It seems almost schizophrenic to design a game to both have this steep of a learning curve, and also have such a poor saving system.

Worst thing is that I feel like I’m whning a whole lot, but I’ve just spent the last 5 horus making barely any progress, and I realised I could be playing something fun instead :confused:

#9

I’ve been busy doing side quests and slaying Cuman SCUM, just getting the part with Ulrich now.

#10

I seriously don’t understand why they put in such a bullshit save system that punishes you for wanting to free roam. I lost 2 hours of game play because I didn’t have enough money for save potions and the game decided to freeze. this wasn’t the first time it happened either. I have no issues with combat or any other game mechanic ( lockpicking is a bit of a bitch on console but whatever) but this save system makes this otherwise excellent game dam near unplayable. I honestly don’t know how these save potions were put in the game without anyone telling them that it was an incredibly stupid idea. I can appreciate what they were attempting to do but the execution is just a piss poor attempt at making the game unforgiving. I can handle losing or dying or failing a quest, but losing hours of gameplay just because of glitches and game freezes is unacceptable. I really enjoy this game and I don’t want to have to drop it just because of a stupid save system. I really hope this is one of the first matters they chose to address in any upcoming patches

#11

yeah the game is being very frustrating for me too so i decided to just stop for the time being while the devs fix it.

#12

There is a mod that lets you save and load without save potions. I got it immediately. You can also craft the save potions, apparently, but I’m not sure how.

#13

i fear my saves will get corrupted in a future patch if i use this mod

#14

I only have this game for console…

#15

I don’t understand why the save system is such an issue. It’s not hard to brew save potions, if you can’t find belladonna or nettle you can buy it from alchemists. 6 belladonna and 3 nettle gives you 3 save potions. The game saves at various points throughout quests, wether they be main quests or side quests. You can save by sleeping in an owned bed, and you can also save at the cleaners if you get the ‘full service’ or whatever. I think if less time was spent complaining about the save system and more time was spent figuring out solutions in-game you’d not be nearly as bothered by it. Combat is difficult in the beginning, you have garbage gear and garbage skills. You have no knowledge of the system and your character has no knowledge so to speak about fighting. Training helps you and your character. Archery was bruuuuutal in the beginning. Shooting a damn rabbit took at least 5-10 arrows. Luckily they’re blind and deaf and don’t run away when you miss for some reason. But as you practice and figure out the system you along with your character will get better.
I’m not a backer of this game, I didn’t follow it pre-release. I found out about it a week before release. But I came into the game being realistic. New studio, day 1 release= tons of bugs.

4 Likes
#16

Use middle mouse button to unlock and look freely. Don’t just back away, but position yourself so they’re lined up, or at the very least keep all of them in your peripherals. Not sure why you’d have to lose hours. There are many auto save moments, you really should be resting often anyway to keep energy up – renting a bed at a tavern, or using bath house services also save the game. Not to mention you have the savior schnapps.

I found quite early on that using a bow requires some intuition. That’s not quite helpful in your situation, but after you mess with it a few times, you start to get a feel for it and can just shoot. You shouldn’t be aiming for the long either… simply draw the string back then release. It’s pretty easy once you get the hang of it, and my bow skills are barely even leveled.

Yeah, slash attacks are not going to go through plate armor. I thought this would be self-explanatory. But they should have mentioned this somehow since other games like to make it seem like swords can rip through fully plated knights.

What are you doing w hen you fight them? Are you attacking? Are you letting one of them out of your sight? Always keep them in front of you, use your middle mouse button so you’re not locked on one person, and position yourself carefully. You should never be aggressive when fighting multiple opponents. Position yourself, bait them into attacking, them counter. You have a few options that you can take after that counter – you can either get a free shot in while watching for an attack from the other one, or take the opportunity to try to get a combo in while the other is staggered. Early on, fighting multiple opponents can be time consuming.

1 Like
#17

Just to dispel the notion that combat system is unforgiving, it’s not at all. I am just 20 hours in and by dedicating 2 hours into training with Captain Bernard I was able to hone my fighting skills to the point where enemies die from 1-2 hits, sometimes just one riposte (perfect block + attack) is enough to have an unarmored enemy weeping for his life.

As for the save system, as has been previously stated, you can easily brew potions for lesser price. To tell you the truth, in 20 hours of my experience(I am now on my way tracking Ginger) I have used the save potion twice, once before the wayfaring knight duel(four hits and he surrendered) and once by mistake, and so I never needed to buy them.
I might sound like a jerk, the game is somewhat unforgiving, but not unbereable, so my advice to you is “git gud”

2 Likes
#18

Thank you for the suggestions, I’d go through them one by one, but it’s getting a lil late here ^^. Anyway, I appreciate your advice, I’ll certainly try to remember this whenever I’m giving this game another shot.

1 Like
#19

The combat isn’t the issue. its the random freezing that makes it a pain in the ass. How am I supposed to know when I should use a save potion. I cant save my progress every 15 min like I normally would if I’m playing a game that has a tendency to freeze…

1 Like
#20

Not to worry, you don’t come off as a jerk, I understand people may experience the game differently than I do.

As for your points, alright, spending 2 hours on a tutorial helped you get better at the game, that is fair, but I don’t feel like that is good game design. I should be able to play through the game organically and pick up the mechanics as I go along. Again, if you enjoy this, that’s fine, but I’d much rather have that training built into the actual story.

As for brewing potions… Alright, I wasn’t even aware that was a thing honestly, and it may lessen the issue. But really, it’s just it’s just that… lessening the issues of a inherently flawed system. There is very little benefit gained from the save system as it is.

As for “git gud”… Well, I don’t think I will if the experience of gittin gud involves slogging my way through hours of tutorial training… again, in my optics, that’s just poor game design.

I’m glad that you’re enjoying yourself though! :slight_smile:

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