A few gripes after ~300 hours in game

I don’t want this topic to turn into a hatefest, so I’ll start by expressing my praise for the game.
First of all I’m grateful to Warhorse for making this title real, I always wanted a medieval-themed non-fantasy RPG.
Kingdom Come is a very ambitious project considering how many non-standard mechanics the game implemented.
I appreciate the artwork, the graphics, the storytelling. I think the amount of effort Warhorse put into making this game consistent with available historical sources. I appreciate the complex combat system, the departure from standard tropes (when you start in a village and get a quest to kill low-level mobs inside a cellar or cave), I appreciate the continuous support for the game. On the other hand, here are some things that make me mad the longer I play the game:

1.The combat system takes visible shortcuts to make up for mediocre AI

1a. Ripostes seem to have been significantly nerfed since I first played the game (I have a box edition). As of now many ripostes (despite obviously showing the player character hitting the opponent with their weapon) inflict very little damage, even less so than standard hits to the same area. This mostly helps the AI, as players engaging multiple opponents (which describes 95% of all fights in game) in melee have to adopt a more defensive approach, which would naturally rely on blocking and riposting. Some of the ripostes have very limited usefulness (for example the one where you kick back your opponent so far it’s impossible to follow up with a fast strike), while some other are counterproductive (the throw around riposte is only good to make yourself surrounded, swarmed and killed, it would have some dubious utility in a duel, but in skirmishes it’s litterally worse than failing to riposte and only doing a perfect block).

1b. The AI knows. Let’s be honest, after being in so many fights I won’t be told that each time my character runs out of stamina enemies get a sudden spike of aggression by pure chance. The player character has no way to assess for enemy stamina (considering AI has a stamina stat, which isn’t very obvious judging by how quickly they can recover from receiving multiple hits), enemies on the other side ALWAYS know when your stamina is low and they keep swarming you like suicide attackers until it regains 25-30% of its maximal value.

1c. Combos are only there to allow low-level mobs to kill you despite your good armor and their poor weaponry. Most AI opponents seem to be able to execute flawless several hit combos (because lousy Cuman stragglers and bums from the nearby village armed with improvised weaponry spend all their time at fencing school), and these combos defeat the purpose of any armor. Only yesterday a fight with a Cuman veteran left me with ~15% health and a bleeding wound following one (1!) combo, despite being fully-encased in high-level plate, chainmail and quilted armor. The game simply lets late hits during a combo to ignore armor. I survived the fight, and none of my equipment was below 90% durability (most were in the 94-100% range), my enemy used a blunt Cuman axe. This mechanic works solely for the purpose of the AI, because being permanently outnumbered it’s near-impossible to execute a combo without being swarmed and killed by other mobs. Nothing explains how my enemy’s blows magically bypassed 3 layers of armor without causing enough damage to debuff its defensive properties. Also combos are impossible to avoid once your stamina is low, you can’t even step back, you can only watch your health drop, because so. Even if you consider combos to be an equivalent of an aggressive fighting style, they still make little sense until very late in game, as most opponents appear to have very high defense and warfare, making it difficult to chain strikes against them.

1d. Autoaim is more bad than good. Countless times the game made it hard for me to change target and maneuver the battlefield. The feature of locking aim on a specific target is really counterproductive, for what reason would I be interested in locking on a specific target on the battlefield, when the most important target is the one standing there in front of me trying to kill me?

1e. Enemies’ ripostes teleport them toward you, which is ridiculous. The games shows perefectly that the step I take back right before an enemy’s riposte is followed by them hovering over (not lunging!) to me to kick my ass, meanwhile my own ripostes kick them out of my attack range, because so.

1f. AI allies are more bad than good. Countless times I’ve been fighting a band of brigands alongside guards from the local garrison, only to have one of the idiots (city guards) walk into my lunge/cut, get hit, and turn hostile. Only yesterday I’ve seen 3-4 guards follow a single brigand approaching me like a circle of living shields, hesitant to attack him, even that one of them were at his blindside.

1g. Blindsiding works only if your name’s AI. If you want to hit an enemy in the back (during skirmish) you have to cheat the game by lunging/swinging beside him, then aiming at him after the attack is launched. It’s near impossible to follow up with additional strikes. The same is real for enemies switching from bow to melee, your aiming reticle simply disappears and attack controls are unresponsive. Apparently Henry’s chivalrous, but his opponents don’t mind hitting him with a combo to the blindside.

2. The trading system is becoming more and more worthless

2a. Initially one could increase reputation with merchants by successfully haggling or tipping them, now you can only lose reputation with merchants.

2b. Up to a recent patch merchants with whom you made regular business became increasingly wealthy which allowed you to trade heaps of loot for coin, not anymore.

2c. The merchants’ stock is utterly unimpressive. Some of the best equipment can only be looted from renegades who creep in the bushes because apparently they have little to eat and no coin to spend. This is most painfully obvious in regard to high-level swords and armor. I understand some pieces are expensive and hard to sell, but I’d pay in advance to have them made or imported. Considering merchants are not there to sell me good stuff or buy stuff for me, why does Warhorse bother placing them in game?

3. Some items/mechanics are illogical or constitute a departure from historical knowledge.

3a. Why does Sir Radzig Kobyla’s sword reflect the offensive capabilities of the merchant’s sword with only half the durability? If this is the finest sword Martin ever made, he’s probably better off forging horseshoes.

3b. Why do some swords feature absurd durability (namely Magdeburg and Fearnot) with only mediocre offensive capacity? Can’t they be sharpened to a narrower angle to exchange some of this durability with cutting power?

3c. Why do some longswords feature gems in the pommel? How many swings would it take for the damn thing to fall off?

3d. How come the Herod sword can cut through plate and mail, but is incapable of piercing it? Is it a lightsaber? Is it a blunt-tipped executioner’s sword? Is it both?

3e. Why does mace training occur with an actual weapon (aka bludgeon)? This makes leveling the mace a chore, because (as long as you’re doing well) Sir Robard gets pommeled into a pulp once a minute and you need to start training once again. Couldn’t people use padded sticks to prevent injury?

3f. The “revenant” perk was nerfed. Good job. Once I could use it to get healed during traveling, now it’s only useful for minor wounds (~10HP) or resting without a bed.

3g. Falling for a medium distance while mounted causes disproportionate damage, falling off the horse doesn’t, because so.

3h. The upgrades around Pribyslavitz make no sense. One can earn 2000 groschen per day from the settlement until they renew the rathaus and church, except for completing the quest this gives the player NOTHING in return. You’re basically expected to permanently lower your income from the city for nothing in return. It would make sense if renewing the church fully attracted more folk allowing the player to build previously excluded structures (for example, previously you could only build stables or a guardhouse, but the renovations brought in more settlers making it profitable and possible to have both).

In conclusion KCD is a great game, I spent nearly 300h to this point playing it, in comparison I’ve played the Witcher III for 140h, Skyrim for 310h, Fallout NV for 160h and Fallout 4 for 600h. It’s not a bad game by any means, but it has some irritating and senseless mechanics and features that become even more so the longer it is played.

I’m curious to read your opinions on the matter, as well as have my points rebuked.

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When did vendors stop getting wealthy? Was this part of the new patch? In the last i saw 1.07 maybe? They still did, now i hear there was a new patch recently. That would suck big time if that is true.

I am still fascinated by the magic of KCD. Half of the players think that combat is too easy, and half think that it is too hard.

Finally, some actual gripes. My merchants still get wealthy and rep goes up when you give them items worth a lot like golden spurs or 20 saviour schnapps. Teleporting enemies and pajama bandits with perfect master strike and combos are very odd. The Pribyslavitz issue is definitely weird as you have more than enough space and manpower to include those excluded buildings. Revenant in hardcore only heals you more during sleeping. I think falling damage is underpowered. You can fall in the tall towers of Talmberg and take no damage which is odd. Basically all of the combat AI issues you brought up are issues that need to be addressed.

The last patch I downloaded decreased the wealth of muh favorite blacksmith (Mikesh of Sasau) from a few dozen K groschen to just over 1K. It was probably 1.6.x or 1.7.

@oKINGxOFxKINGSz
Just today I fell into a 1m deep ditch beside the mill at Kohelnitz (you can go there in game and see the damn ditch). It reduced me from 100 to 7 health with both bleeding legs (nevermind I have the Featherweight perk which reduces fall damage to 70% base value). Falling damage is very random.

@Kaven
It’s not too easy or too hard, it’s just unfair at times. I don’t mind a challenge, I just dislike it when the rules are not clear, or are specifically rigged in favor of the AI.

After playing hardcore I’ve definetly noticed the flaws of combat.
To me one of the most annoying is dodging. If you dodge you half to wait about a second before you attack again which gives enemy time to attack.
Also with gems in pommels, that is for nobles, and no, its not gonna fall out because its a videogame c:
Jeweled sword pommels/swords (about halfway down): http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2574

I’ve seen some jeweled swords, bust most were Karabela or Mameluke type sabers, and weren’t meant for any substantial amount of combat (pretty much like the swords you linked). I’ve honestly never seen an actual longsword (barring holywood bull) with a gem in the pommel. All the ornate longswords I ever saw had sculpted patterns on the hilt and some minor ornaments on the blade. It’s not like you can set a stone inside a piece of metal hafted on a four-foot-long spring and expect it not to fall out despite you using it to pound armored heads.

I wouldn’t mind if it was a fantasy game, but KCD isn’t one. Warhorse has put some solid effort to make the world of KCD as historically accurate as possible, yet this detail is very immersion breaking, it feels like teleporting to a fantasy MMO.

1b. not only does the AI seem to know your stamina, the AI seems to know you’re Henry, the chosen one, and that they must stop all current battling to pursue you… even if it means they expose their backs to other AI attacks

i use this exploit to draw the bandits and Cuman off the guards when the guards are outnumbered. i’d rather not have this exploit. come on, think about it. a guy on a horse appears. my band of brothers is going to stop its current battling and chase after the dude on horseback with enemies hot on our backs.

on the other hand, if the bandits and Cuman really know I’m the medieval incarnation of Keres and know that I’ve come to harvest them, they’d better run, hide or put into place a proper anti-cavalry strategy. in this play thru i have over 1k kills in HC mode that suggest they’ve still got it wrong

1d/1g. autoaim or inability to do so is one of the things i hate about KCD combat. i’d like to rush in and get in some quick attacks to dispatch the first dude and balance out the numbers when the guards are in the minority. nope. :frowning:

yesterday, i was west of Uzhitz along north path into Pribyslavitz forest in a depression just off the forest edge. the bandits outnumbered the guards. i want to save the guards. so i jump off Jenda and race towards a bandit. he’s straight ahead. the computer thinks it’s smarter than me and tries to implement its own targeting. meanwhile, i’m in the guy’s grill swinging my metal plated axe. every frickin’ swing misses. the odds of making absolutely no contact is as remote as Henry not making contact with Theresa’s breasts whilst he’s mounted on her in full missionary position.

1f. to me, this is position and tactical awareness. a pet peeve of mine is that NPCs give up tactical advantage because the target has moved away too much. obviously, this is a benefit to me/Henry when i move back and one of the 2 (or 3) NPCs move away from me and starts attacking a guard. but, i don’t want this benefit. not at all!

i want guards to stay locked in to their target when they have tactical advantage. more times than i can count one of them breaks away to fight another bandit or Cuman and his partner eats it. good grief dude, you just got your brother in arms wrecked or killed and now the advantage is squandered.

2c. unimpressive? ok, not cool when we have access to the best merchants in lovely and bountiful Bohemia. bigger issue to me is that the armorer’s goods don’t match the town/village/hamlet. why the heck does Zach in Pribyslavitz not sell Talmberg (and Skalitz) shields? why are there no heavy shields with the liege lord’s crest/emblem?

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I have keep remembering that KCD is not about combat, it is not a combat game, it is not a survival game, it is trying to be a role playing game. We can all find some peeve about the gameplay, but overall I still find the game entertaining.

it’s not a combat only game. but the game was centered in part around the notion of delivering more realistic medieval combat (that is in fact innovative even if quirky)… hence the 5 star and armor layering

Great point “it’s not only a combat game ----> combat can be left unpolished”.

Like @frelmedieval said above, combat is meant to be an important mechanic of this game, it’s important for combat to be functional and reasonably balanced.

If you take the combat mechanics that are available in KCD and play the game with the notion that combat is an element of the overall game and not the main element, e.,g. FPS games, then the combat system is adequate. Can it be improved upon, certainly, but it is not horrible now.

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Except that KCD is built around combat, and while other systems are well developed, they are not so to the same degree. It’s a first person hack and slash with advanced RPG elements and a possibility of a pacifist walkthrough. It’s a game where you’re expected to fight, where you serve as a town guard and squire, the main plot is built around war.

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My main gripe with combat is the camera control I was walking into this game hoping for a mount & blade approach to controls, with a 5 star etc.

  • The mouse however appears to have input lag when selecting direction
  • animations seem to have to play out fully, making them restricted and jarring instead of flowing between them smoothly (like many game engines can do nowadays - smooth transition between animations)
  • I expected a targeting reticule for every enemy within range and line of sight rather than locking and centering onto only one enemy and ignoring any contextual actions from others that may be further up close.
  • Mount and Blade did this sort of combat right. Crisp and responsive sword controls with free moving camera giving freedom of approach, resolving collisions as they come along.

I get that KCD went way more detailed with animations and combat details which may have resulted in things being further locked down and tied up, but I hope in the future, possibly for KCD 2, this gets looked at and resolved, it’s a big issue with the current setup.

no sword, but a bow and a piercing arrow! (a fight with Prcek in the pribislavice racing lasted 1 second (!) one headshot.
Garch

Pcrek??? Czech for runt??? Pribyslavitz?

Beating Runt is easy with good skill, no matter your approach. I beat him with two ripostes.

XBox One: Patch 1.5

I agree with much of what you wrote, though I haven’t found the “autolock” much problem.
Maybe I’m playing differently than you.
I do have a problem with I’ll equiped road bandits attacking a decked out knight.
You would think they would have better sense.
Now other well equiped knights/bandits are a different story, but a well equiped knight or more turning to banditry for a living? Questionable.
Haven’t had a problem with reputation with merchants or with them not having enough money, but I’m still using Patch 1.5.
Hope WHS addresses some of your issues…soon.

I have no issue with knights or elite mercenaries turning into banditry (it’s historically-accurate btw). I have an issue with them being the only source for most of the best equipment.

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One headshot :slight_smile: