A slight recomendation on heavy armor

Combat system
#1

Hi guys i absolutely love the game and a hard core fan. There been so much praise on visuals and authenticity i have litterly nothing else to add but my admiration. I actually have feedback on the rpg aspect of fullplate armor and just a slight one at that.

When daniel said wearing fullplate would make you feel like a tank i was all right would love to see historic heavy armor fights. As you know they were rare for a soldier only the rich would have it and when they fought many time it was to a draw when one gave up from exhaustion and would be ransomed. When i saw the recent e3 video and how fast the heavy armored knight lost stamina from hits i was like.nooooo. historically some suits deflected muskets balls and arrows and were solid enough, swords and piercing never worked and even maces had thier work cut out. But from and rpg aspect if my character will be much slower and i give up a bunch of vision i would want that cool experianxe were i am tanking.shots and wont die too fast if flanked since i might not see an enemy.sneak up on me. I only.humbly request you make the heavy armor stronger then what i saw in the demo. Thats litterly the only tweak i can suggest because you guys are so epic in everything you create. Thanks

2 Likes
#2

Not just armour, friend. Even unarmoured and fighting with your fists, you lose stamina at a mile a minute.

1 Like
#3

I agree, full plate should be much stronger than it currently is. They could balance this by making it more rare, or incredibly expensive. And while this isnā€™t very realistic, they could go the Fallout route and require you to learn ā€œarmor trainingā€ before you can equip full plate.

3 Likes
#4

I disagree. IRL you canā€™t just strap on armor and go. It takes conditioning to grow accustomed to wearing it, and you DO need to learn how to move in it.

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#5

Conditioning can reduce some of the penalties a newbie tends to face. Is it really that extreme of a difference, in your experience? I have heard of guys getting high on carbon-dioxide, and panicking and trying to rip their helmets off, or people getting exhausted quickly from the strain. But I thought the latter part of that was more due to poorer physical health.

#6

100% agree knights in full plate are virtualy indestructable, but there are weak spots mostly at the joints, under the arm pits and at the back. there are actualy a few ways to over come and defeat full plate, if mounted go for the horse often a dissmounted night would be either crushed by the horse as it fell or break an arm or leg or at the very least be very dissoriented allowing him to be easily disspatched. Next bodkin arrows shot at close range either from a War bow or cross bow, these would be more effective than a muskit ball which is roughly round and easily deflected where as a bodkin is cilindrical with a very sharp point capable of piecing plate if it hits at 90 degrees to the surface of the plate. There is also the possibility to gang up with 4 or 5 light troops armed with pole arms sourounding the night on foot and keeping him occupied whilst one of thier number sneaks up behind and digs a dagger into one or more of the weak spots in the armour

#7

Mediaeval Bodkin is an anti-maille or anti-cloth head. (Of course a bodkin might function against a poorly shaped and treated modern ā€˜costumeā€™ armour, but it isnā€™t the right tool for the job).

Historical survivors show (tested) bodkins are nearly universally unhardened, while quarrel heads are a mix of hardened and unhardened samples. The type 16 heads are hardened steel point and edge, and have a ā€˜compressedā€™ broadhead form which is stiff and strong with a piercing point and a ā€˜cuttingā€™ action through the material.

While we donā€™t have records of what heads were used - we do know that they were exclusively hardened arrows, so that rules out mediaeval bodkin as anti-armour types against evolved armour (steel harness or coat of plates).

The type 16 started out with straight barbs, but these were later brought closer the the socket and curved, this change occurring at the same time as armour increased in effectiveness with coat of plates and later harness.

The final development from the form of the type 16 was to forge the barbs integral to the socket and head, which gives the ā€˜phillips headā€™ form of the tudor era bodkin arrows, which may also have been hardened.

#8

I would not say that you where wrong, as arrow quality would have been variable to say the least. However there are contempry sources that do mention plate being pierced by arrows, and also a story though unsubstantiated of an archer on the Welsh border in the 12 th century piercing a castle gate through to the other side. So in short yes top notch Italian armour would have been all but invulnerable, but having said that most would not have been able to afforded the best armour. Also even in the later part of the 100 years war when the French started attacking on foot they still could not defeat the combination of war bows and supporting men at arms on foot.

#9

You guys have great points on how effective full plate is. I guess the question comes down to how long do you want a fight to last like 3 hits kills someone vs 7 or what ever the arbitrary amount is. Because the combat is so nuanced and tactical i lile a long fight where all armors get a slight buff. However the romanticized dueling in full plated should take quite a while, tje armor gives it almost a unique mechanic of needing precision and ensurance to win. Longer fights in heavy armor and mpre forgiving if archers and enemies sneak up on you is a great thing.

#10

Iā€™d prefer if there were specific killing moves that are difficult to pull off, but get easier as the knight gets more tired from hits.

#11

That doesnā€™t mean that the sources are true. Arrows are ineffective against plate armour, it is 2-3 mm thick hardened steel with shape that deflect arrows or blade, even if you would somehow be able to pierce it there is no chance that it will be deep enough to seriously injure the person.

If the steel would be so low quality that it can be pierced by arrows, it doesnā€™t make sense to make armour out of it.

If you want to see how is longbow actually effective against armour watch this:
(0:55)


(archer would have hard time getting that close in battle)

Even gamberson is supringly effective against arrows:

1 Like
#12

i watched this video on YT today. Its very interesting.

#13

and heres one showing me right, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCE40J93m5c so I suppose it just depends on the which film you watch, however I would say that the steel in the middle ages was no where near as good or strong as modern steel. as to the distance archer were deployed usualy behind some kind of obstacle sharpened stakes with pits dug infront or marshy/soft ground that sort of thing, if the knights had attacked on horse back then they would most like be on foot by now and shocked and exhausted, even more so if they had advanced on foot. also getting shot at by one archer is nothing like being taken by volley fire by six or seven thousand firing at rates of fire which where not excceded until the first automatic fire arms or the gatling gun.

#14

Iā€™d place bets on that breastplate being a piece of shit ( or very thin), considering well made gambeson with mail underneath was able to stop a 145lb war bow in its tracks, and a well made brestplate offered far superior protection than gambeson with mail underneath.

#15

No it doesnā€™t, breastplate in this video is not real breastplate. Good sign that video is shit, is that it has turned off comments.

#16

There is not mail underneath, he just has mail on his hand when he is showing the gambeson, for some reason.

#17

The maille was over his arm for most of the scene (and briefly on top of the gambeson) - probably discussed immediately before or after the gambeson was (in the uncut footage). The shot was against just the gambeson. Maille would be worn on top of the cloth layers if present.

#18

I agreeā€¦ you needed to be trained in all aspects of combat. It seems that there should be training in heavy armor as well.

#19

I am just wondering if a mod or developer has input on weather armor and damage is still being balanced or what we saw is about finalized? I was really hoping for more of a buff to heavy armors. would almost be a different mechanic of fighting heavy vs light. The light armor guy running around or doing hit and runs or sneaking in while attack when the guys back is turned has itā€™s own sense of play. A heavy armor fight lasts a longer time and feels more tactical, like you have the time to place shots and duel, or be the rock of steadfastness on the front battle lines and be able to stay there without having to worry that you will die too fast.

So devs any buffs to fullplate or will fullplate be more effective then shown at e3?

#20

There are obvious placeholder values and errors in the values for the weapon and armour shown at E3.

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