Adding a combat mode without locking

Combat system
#1

So, I have been reading into forums, and a lot of people are complaining about locking system. I already told about the needs of mapping block into another button (since blocking while moving into the left is simply impossible unless you have 6 fingers), preferably the RMB and the stab to the middle button, so that all the sword related things are in the mouse. However giving the possibility to map yourself the buttons is what I would love, in fact, since I have a gaming mouse and I could map the stab to some thumb button.

But about what really I want to talk about is how to solve the locking system thing. First I want to state that I haven’t tried the game yet, so I might be wrong with the solution coming to my head, since I haven’t experienced by myself the game. However, I came to guess that locking system could be made so that it only triggers when you have one enemy left, or you trigger it on purpose with a button. I would make so that you can change your target with the mouse wheel or any other buttons in case you trigger it with more than one enemy. But, lastly, I would divide combat system into two modes. With lock trigger, and without lock trigger. With lock trigger, you autoaim to the enemy and don’t control the camera unless you get far. With the mouse you move the sword into different stances. I would do, however, another combat system close to the one existing to fight against various enemies without locking on anyone, that uses aswell the same animations than the other, but that is not stance based. You simply have your sword hang into the middle stance (which I don’t know if it exists right now), and you could only change it of side by clicking a button, so that you hold it at the right (at the hip heighth) or at the left. When holding block you would be able to block in the direction you move as you do now, and attacking would work the same way. The difference is that you would be stance locked in the middle, and all your attacks would need a windup animation. Another option would be to mantain the stance based combat but make the stance change only when holding block, and lock in the last stance selected when releasing block. While holding block you wouldn’t be able to move the camera, or you would need to move the mouse a lot to do so. That would also be a good way to handle combat, in fact better than the best option, and fitting much more the way the game is played currently. In fact people would end up at playing without the lock option, probably, although I feel that for duels it might feel pretty good.

Share your thoughts about this options I gave.

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#2

This I agree with 100%. When there are 3-4 enemies I find myself having to back up constantly because I am locked on one target. He might be all the way in the back and there is 3 enemys between me and the locked one this is very annoying. So I have to back up because the other enemys are surrounding me so scrolling through targets or useing Tab, just some way to switch between multiple targets would be great.

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#3

There is a button (MMB?) that disengages the current locked target, allowing selection of another.

#4

Damn, I must have missed that then =) I think they should implement keybindings for sure tho.

#5

On MKB its quite easy so far, real problem with switching is right now on gamepad. Unlocking target is on B key (on Xbox Controller), but to move your crosshair on another enemy, you need the same hand you use for pressing B key… thats some fine finger gymnastic there :smiley:

#6

Even though, Lieste, isn’t the unlocking thing a little bit slow? Haven’t played so I can’t really say, but doing an abstraction work, I find myself surrondered by 3 man, and autolocking seems annoying for me. Can you currently swing the blade, defend and attack without locking on anyone? Cause that would be the real thing. Doing some comparision with real life, locking would be like focusing on one target. You might do that when you are fighting one people. Even two if you think you can take out one fast. But when you are facing two good opponents, you aint focusing on one. You are going to focus on not being killed.

If there’s not a way to swing block without locking, it would be a good implementation. :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW, I really DO WANT to play this game. You don’t know folks how much I envy you currently. :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

Well… it is exactly like this right now. Push the middle mouse button and you will unlock your target and you are free to lock into an other one simply be looking at him.

#8

Yeah I know that now ^^

#9

Can you slash and defend without locking a target? It would be great to know.

#10

Slashing is possible without locking in a target. Defending is not possible, at least not acitve. Physics still works, if your shield or sword is in the way per hazzard, you will block your enemy without intention.

#11

It’s something at least. Could you work into making defending through stances possible aswell? I gave upwards a few ideas that maybe could solve the issue. I mean, it’s a great job the one you are doing, but unless you give some defense against large group of enemies, this game might be about dueling, and seriously, everyone wants to take a chance vs various enemies. :stuck_out_tongue:

Transmit this to your team of developers. When not locking into an enemy, changing stances while holding block, moving the camera when you do not hold block. When you release block, the sword stays in the last stance selected. It would be simply perfect, if you could make something alike.

#12

Well, it is not this easy, as a block is a reaction. The lock into the enemy shows your character on what to react. And you would do similar in real life.

#13

Yes and no. Locking is like focusing on an enemy. As you say, blocking is a reaction. When you fight vs various enemies, what you are aware off is not a single enemy, but all of them, and you react to each one of them (or at least you try). What I mean is that locking is a nice feature when fighting against one enemy, or even vs various enemies, if you want to go wild on one and then fight the others, but it’s important to give freedom of defense when you aint focusing in anybody in particular, but only trying to defend yourself from hits coming from everywhere. What I am trying to mean? Well, what I am exactly trying to mean is that if physics still work and you can “accidentaly block”, it would be nice if you could move your sword aswell so that it is not so much accidental, but a matter of skill. I mean, it is enough to be surrounded by more than two man. Already difficult enough. IF YOU CAN, and it is not a inmense huge of work now, that might be the case, I would give possibility to full fight without locking on anybody. This would favor various types of play, and locking would still be a good feature to single fight someone as your camera would focus into him. Howerver, that same thing would be a serious problem when you are fighting more than one person. I feel like completing the combat system without being dependant of you locking or not, would make you completely rock what you are trying to achieve.

Will play anyway, either if you finally do something similar to what I ask to or not. It’s simply a matter of comfortableness when engaging various enemies, but I admit that if you can’t completely feel the system without blocking, is going to be a pitty. :frowning:

#14

I’m gonna copy/paste my comment about different combat modes that I made in a different thread:

I agree there should be some kind of unlocked combat. It doesn’t have to be something sophisticated, the way how it is now before it gets locked with a little bit of improvement would be alright IMO. It shouldn’t be full-featured alternative to the locked combat for casual players as some people here suggest. The idea to design a completely different combat systems as an equal alternative to the current one is obviously total nonsense that is out of touch with realistic possibilities. However, I think it should work as a rather non-effective way how to attack weak enemies or people from behind, exactly like you can hit an enemy before it locks to him in the current beta (it especially makes sense when you kill helpless villagers - there is no need to lock on them and to have 5 ways how to attack them, it’s sufficient just to slice them by non-directed attacks). And if a player wanted to have a serious fight, he would need to lock manually, and from that moment he would have all the options of the combat system. So my basic suggestion is to make the locking solely manual, meaning that a player would always have to decide whether he wants to lock on someone, and if he didn’t lock, he would be able to fight in an ineffective free combat mode with non-directed attacks. No automatic locking at all.

And another extremely important thing is changing between locked targets once you are locked on someone. There has to be an easy, fast and accurate way how to change targets. But I’m sure Warhorse is aware of that and this will be solved.

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#15

Well, yes, you are partially right. The physics still works. It would be still a bit of luck if you manage to block your opponent in this kind of way, as you would not totally block one side.
In the same time, you probably would use this only if you fight already against somebody, and in this case, you are already able to do this, because you have the directions if you fight with someone. If you know what I am talking about.
But adding another system is a lot of efford for an already complex combat system with only a small advantage in the actual combat. I don´t know if it would make the combat system really better.

#16

I don’t exactly mean adding a new system, but using the stances animations of the locking mode, without locking. What I mean? Instead of depending of an opponent to do the stances, make it possible to do them without locking into a enemy. This would be totally great, since people could spar on their own some basic combos without needing an opponent, aswell as trying the different blocking (not parrying) stances without needing to have an enemy into them. Basically, it would allow to do some katas, more or less, which are usefull to get the basis of the combat without having to lock on anybody. As some people suggested, I would make so that the crosshair is always the star with the 5 directions to hit (except when you are using the bow, of course) and to block. What would differ with locking combat then? Simply. When locking on someone you could parry, and have access to the clashes, your attacks would be auto aimed to your target… those kinds of things, that actually would make locking a usefull option, but also would give a little bit more of survival ability when handling multiple oppnents, not only depending on luck.

What do you think about this? :stuck_out_tongue:

#17

Well, maybe @Vik could take a closer look at this idea. It is his combat system.
I am personally not conviced if the ratio of effort and advantage is reasonable here, but maybe the team will think different about it.

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#18

Well, Fussel, I am amazed of your fast replys and how you engage with the communitty. Is the first time I see a team so open to the player suggestions. I hope @Vik can take a look on this thread, and I hope some people who have already played and are not detractors of your system (I’ve seen too many of them in the forums) can tell wether is a good idea or not the one I am providing. But I defenitily feel like allowing to move your sword to receive an impact when handling multiple opponents is a must have in order to survive. At last when you are fighting multiple opponents without locking at once, what you want is exactly that. Survive. You don’t want to counter attack or make amazing ripostes. You want not to get hit, since a hit surely means a lot of them more. Already means that when fighting a single opponent if he is skilled, for what I’ve seen in videos, imagine if you fight multiple guys. You will at least get a free hit of each of them, at least the one that are close, and more than one hit if they are skilled. I trully think that is fair to provide the player with more than luck to survive those encounters, or else, you would never engage vs more than one enemy.

#19

Right, there is. But it is of a click+hold type instead of click-toggle. For me, it is hard to hold the wheel constantly, while trying to defend against several foes. I would also prefer two modes and a switch between them.

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#20

Indeed, I suppose that the intention of holding it is to inmediately turn your camera to another enemy and release the button, so that it autolocks onto a new enemy, but being that button the MMB, I guess it makes it too difficult. In adittion, that means that you will focus a lot into a enemy, making it impossible to fight the 3 at once in a more defensive way, without locking one, and as I said before, this means being hit by the enemies you are not locked in, and a lot of times loosing them out of view, as your camera is centered in the enemy you are locking. Too embarrasing to fight this way, you will not enjoy fighting various enemies. In fact I don’t think you really stand a chance out of duels. And that is not realistic, as a skilled swordsman can take more than one enemy. It’s difficult, yes, but at least he can try pretty much. And he will fight aswell in a different way.

I think that everything that can be said about this topic has already been said. I only hope that the devs take a look into it and finally improve the locking system and the combat without locking as it will really make the game much more playable. And I am almost sure they will, having in count this is a beta and is released in order to be tested and later polish the bugs and flaws reported by the community.

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