Archery questions and ideas

Gameplay
#1

I have just (finally) won battle at Pribyslavitz, and I have some questions about archery.

  1. Will there be some skill to make arrow nocking faster? Henry nocks in about 5 sec, it can be quite faster (such as here, on second video: http://www.rychla-lukostrelba.cz/existujici-techniky/petr-kavan.html - it is more realistic then Lars Andersen)

  2. What is the strength of Henry’s Test bow (in lb)?

  3. Will there be some indicator to see if arrow is already nocked or not? Often I start to shoot, it does nothing (arrow not nocked yet), so I release mouse button, and arrow just falls down and new one has to be locked. I should know if I can draw the bow already, and without looking down.

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Критика куманов/половцев в игре
#2

There will almost definitely be skills that improve archery. Exactly how those work hasn’t been announced.

They aren’t going to tell you what the draw weight is. That invites all kinds of pointless scrutiny and archery geeks correcting things that are not relevant to the game.

I had the same problem when trying to fire as fast as possible. It was difficult to tell when exactly the arrow was ready to fire. So far there’s nothing, other than your stamina starts to drain.

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#3

It’s punishable by death to even mention his name on this forum. Since you’re new we can make an exception, but you have been warned.

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#4

http://magyartortenelmiijasz.com/tobb-nyil-a-huzokezben/
But I do not think that these three arrows in the hand gave a significant increase in the rate of fire. It most likely looked quite different than it is now shown in the YouTube.
But the programmers will have a lot of problems from them.

#5

Can we release the memes, now?

#6

Aradiel: Some indicator of “arrow nocked successfully” would certainly be helpful. Maybe as a perk or so. Begginer has to look on the hands when nocking, while experienced archer can do it only by feel, while keeping sight on the target.

SirWarriant: Well, in fact I like HIM (no name mentioned) for drawing archers’ attention to the speed of shooting. It is totally missing in contemporary archery sports, and it was certainly important in history. But that’s all about him, I don’t want to start yet another flame here.

velizariy: I understand only pictures there :slight_smile: Arrows in hand certainly increase speed. There are other ways to increase it, but this is certainly a possible way. Here is an english translation of medieval Arabic manuscript on archery: https://www.archerylibrary.com/books/faris-elmer/arab-archery/docs/xlv-2.html On this page and next one they describe several ways to speed up nocking, and most of them involve holding arrows in the string hand.

#7

bad link, here it is: https://www.archerylibrary.com/books/faris-elmer/arab-archery/docs/xlv-2.html

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#8

Thanks for the exact link to the page. I’m waiting for the translation of this work into Russian, as uncomfortable to read - not all the details are clear.

#9

Thought of this… but Memes :smile:

RELEASE THE MEMES!

#10

Nothing “He” does is historical. All of his methods have been discussed on here in great length, and debunked as nothing more than trick shooting.

We have a secret weapon when it comes to dealing with “Him”. But i think ill keep it in reserve, for now…

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#11

The method he uses is his own invention. But that’s the same with Lajos Kassai, for example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yorHswhzrU).

What I say that “was important in history” was the speed of shooting. We certainly know that many American indian tribes had methods for shooting fast, and some trained it very intensively, more then the accuracy (recorded by George Caitlín, http://archive.org/stream/lettersnotesonma00catl#page/n223/mode/2up , Letter 20). Fast shooting technique is also mentioned in Arab archery (linked above) and Saracen archery (translation of even older Mameluke work on archery - https://pgmagirlscouts.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/saracen_archery.pdf). In both texts the speed shooting is noted as something desirable, masterly, something that archer should try to achieve.

Speed of shooting was usually measured by “how many arrows can I release before the first one touches the ground”. The usual speed was something between 3 - 10 arrows in the air. That is far better than English archers could do; however they had a very different equipment, so it is hard to compare. Yet it is often mentioned that best English archers could release 12 arrows in a minute, which again means that there was some pursuit of speed. They could not do the same thing that indians did, but they also tried to be as fast as possible under their conditions.

#12

Stand down private, we will get orders from High command when it is time.

Copy that Alpha 1. Bravo on position.

#13

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/58521022.jpg

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#14
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#15

Yes, but they drew they didn’t shoot at half draw, nor did they flip around while shooting. He is able to achieve the speed at which he shoots because he doesn’t pull the string all the way back. Because of this his arrows would have little to no affect on someone wearing a gambeson, let alone mail or plate.

Not to mention the draw weight of his bow is around 30lbs ? Even at full draw a 130lb warbow could not get through gambeson and mail armor.

You have forced my hand, gotta bring out weapon X.

@PrasCo!

#16

Hey, I was speaking generally about historical interest in speed shooting. No Lars mentioned. A good speed can be achieved even with stronger bow if you just want to. I’m shooting something like 1 arrow per 1.5sec with 60lb turkish style bow and 28’’ draw; and I am no superman. And not everyone needs to shoot through gambeson. There are central african or south american tribes that seriously murder each other by 30-40lb bows. Something similar is expected for ancient Egyptians of pre-Hyksos era.

But original question was about Henry who wants to penetrate gambeson, so he needs stronger bow. I just wanted to know if there will be something to speed his shooting up, because it is possible, even with stronger bow. Lars was there just for illustration … not a good idea, I see, but I was warned too late.

#17

Fast shooting with a longbow was around 15 seconds for 3 arrows in flight simultaneously. While I haven’t taken a stopwatch to the in game/beta representation, that seems to me to be around the tempo that we can attain.

In any case, using the bow has so far been “easy mode” compared to the risks inherent in closing to melee ranges, and game balance certainly doesn’t need to be further skewed by significantly increasing rates of fire. I’d question the ability to penetrate armour to the degree we see, and the damage caused on penetration as well. I remain unconvinced that an arrow should deliver a significantly heavier blow than a full intent thrust from hand weapons.

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#18

I think i get what you’re trying to say. But i disagree. If anything “He” has harmed the idea of historical archery, by skewing everyones perception by telling gullible people that has the only truth, and everyone else is doing it wrong.

You have a ton of people running around now thinking that shooting a 30lb bow at half draw and flipping all over the place is a real representation of how archers operated on the battle field.

If you’re drawing the string all the way back and can achieve speeds like that, good. But “He” does not draw the string back far enough, nor does he use a bow that would be effective on a battlefield.

I’m not criticizing speed shooting in general, i have no issue believing that trained archers were able to shoot quickly. I’m merely criticizing the way “He” does it, because his way would not be effective on the battlefield.

Yes but they most certainly drew the bow back all the way. “He” uses an already somewhat weak bow, and makes it even weaker by not shooting at full draw.

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#19

It shouldn’t. However, depending on the arrow tip, it should be easier to go through the gaps in maille. A bodkin tipped arrow from a 70 to 80 pound bow can pierce maille under certain ranges but mail and gabeson are a much tougher prospect to beat. Let alone a brigantine or plate. Archery casualties were usually from arrows that find a weak spot in armour rather than going through the armour itself.

#20

Lieste: In beta it is roughly 5 sec for nocking, 2 more for drawing the bow, and possibly at least 1 sec for aiming. I tried Pribyslavitz battle with bow only, and it is very hard. Shooting frequency is quite slow, and I miss too often. Less damage and greater speed would suit my tastes more, I would act as a distraction, that helps other warriors. About armor penetration - I was also surprised how effective it is against chainmail in the game. That’s why I asked about the strength of game bow. First I tried to shoot unprotected Cumans’ legs, but then I found that it gives better result to shoot directly in the armor.

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