Blocking enemy attack suggestion

Combat system
#22

You’re still giving your opponent the vor. You do NOT want to be in the nach, that puts you at a significat disadvantage in a fight.

As for being strong vs. weak, if you’re fighting with an arming sword (shortsword is a bad word. That’s a purely modern term) and your opponent is a longsword, you’re still in a VERY bad position because you give him the advantage of his reach. You HAVE to close distance on him to tie him up and take that away, or else you’re giving him control of the fight. That means parrying strong to strong, but you don’t have much choice.

#23

Also, you don’t necessarily need to be strong in the bind. Remember: You don’t have to STOP his blade, jsut deflect it away. The sword will always follow the path of least resistance, which means you’re perfectly capable of passing your opponent’s sword safely out of the way even if you’re weak in the bind (by allowing the sword to pass through).

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#24

Adding directional block will mean the combat system is about timing and direction. This will deepen the combat system which will make it more challenging and rewarding for the player. Feints will feel more natural as you can feint to get an opponent to block in the feint direction then change the line of attack around the block.

Also as a player plays the game they can take advantage of learning the different weapons attack patterns. Players can learn which directions are most threatened and shift their blocks to cover directions most vulnerable. This will add another aspect to player skill.

#25

In that case I hope they don’t take inspiration from Mount & Blade or War of the Roses, those felt clunky as shit and not at all natural.

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#26

Im so confused about blocking/combat system now. I am reading pieces of information here and there and I cant make a solid picture of it in my head.I am not sure if mechanics of combat system are comleted or still in development. The same for one blocking button… Is it the only and definte way of blocking? I dont want to be mean or something, or put some pressure on someone. Hopefully the new video will uncover the misty places for me.

#27

There is a very good mechanics in M&B: Warband called “chamberblocking” where you deflect your enemy’s attack by starting your own attack in a certain way. If the attack is parried this way, it may leave the attacking player open to the defender’s swing. Ofc, the animations for this didn’t look very pretty, but it added a lot of depth to sword fighting. Personally, I would love to see something like this implemented in KC: D using 2014 state-of-the-art methods, especially since, as Ambaryerno mentioned, this is the way how it was done IRL.

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#28

One of the problems in M&Bs blocking system is, that the sword and the fighter is bouncing back. The best blocking method I’ve heard of is to use your shield with a certain angle and let the attack slide along the shield instead of hitting it directly. It’s because you can move an arm easily away in the other dimensions. If someone is doing an overhead attack (vertical attack), you can easily move his arms to the sides (horizontal movement). If an attacker is thrusting, it’s easy to parry his attack via hitting his sword from any direction. This is how martial arts generally work: redirect the enemy’s force and at the same time find the spot of no active force to hit the opponent right there.

#29

There’s several ways to defend that overhead cut. You can stop it outright with a zornhau, use a zwerchau to both close the line AND attack his head in one move, there’s various means by which you can void his attack without blade contact at all (usually with a cut to the hands or arms), and you can certainly pass the attack (blade contact, but in a way that his attack is thrown past you by taking advantage of the sword wanting to follow the path of least resistance). You also have to consider which part of the blades are making contact (strong vs. weak, strong vs. strong, weak vs. weak, etc.) or whether your attacker is hard or weak in the bind (trying to pass his blade if he’s weak usually gets you a thrust to the face).

Thrusting is actually even more complicated, because you may end up in winding…

#30

The M&B system is better than the one proposed for KC: D. The directional blocking system isn’t about how you hold your sword to block an attack, it’s about your focus on where the attack is coming from. This feeling of watching the enemy weapon and intercepting attacks where they are is integral to real combat, which is why the M&B system is immersive.

KC: D is being developed for PC and console, so it won’t have a control system as immersive as one developed for just PC or just console. 1 button blocking doesn’t cut it for a modern PC game focussed on combat simulation, but that’s obviously not the focus of this game.

#31

M&B have a system that have nothing to do with how you use a sword in reality and is very simple… static blocks all the way, and when you attack you leave yourself very open. And that is simply not the way to do it.

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#32

You should reconsider your position. Both have something to do with the way a sword is used.

For M&B, it’s gameplay, for KC: D, it’s animation. Gameplay is more important for the feeling of combat.

Btw, the next M&B game is set to feature deflection, not static blocks (and if you watch the KC: D combat video, it does feature static blocks for some reason).

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#33

I really like your idea and hope it is considered by the devs. The hold to auto-block feature is one thing that makes combat in games like AC really easy, and therefore has no place in this game.

#34

kcd has advantage realism and animation, m&b has wild swinging. i wouldn’t say m&b wins in the gameplay department at all.

#35

The graphics are more realistic, the mechanics are not.

You say M&B has wild swinging, when each attack type has severe pros and cons, which have an immediate effect on gameplay on multiple levels, even if you don’t land a hit. So far, we haven’t seen that KC: D has a lot more than “wild swinging”.

#36

You’re right, we haven’t. But you’re comparing a finished game to a pre-alpha game where not all things are implemented yet. That’s not a fair comparison.

€dit:
I’ve never played M&B and don’t know if it’s any more realistic than KCD combat-wise. But some people seem to demand to make the controls complicated just for the sake of it. A good designed game needs to have easy to learn controls while on the other hand it has an open skill ceiling so the player can always improve on something. Pressing all keyboard keys and mouse buttons at once just to make a move isn’t the ultimate realistic feature, its 'just bad control design, IMO. What’s the saying again. Easy to learn, hard to master. I think, Warhorse will deliver.

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#37

m&b has only one attack type to kcd’s 2(possibly more), 4 directions of attack to kcd’s 6. please tell me more how m&b’s glorious system is more complex and realistic.

swinging in a linear swiping motion like in m&b from up to 3 directions(up,left,right) is even less realistic than hollywood sword fighting, at least hteatrical sword fighting gives the impression of dynamism, tactic, and fluidity.

m&b has directional blocking. big deal. like people really blocked open spaces in real life while a weapon was coming from a completely different direction.

from the alpha footage, it’s readily apparent that the system is way better than m&b’s. the hang-up is about lack of direction blocking like the 4 direction blocking of m&b. it’s another case of people’s inability to accept innovation and evolution, believing in a construct from a game that was never realistic to begin with, and is only realistic if you compare it to the likes of world of warcraft.

#38

I haven’t played M&B for a few years, but I did play lots of hours of it, and all I remember is that the most effective way of dealing with enemies is just spam spam spam attacks. Preferably with a shield in the other hand to block attacks if you needed to, because blocking with a weapon was clunky and ugly and inconvenient. Same system was used in War of the Roses, and it just felt like shit. I couldn’t play many hours of that, even if I did good.

I play a lot of Chivalry. While the combat isn’t realistic, it’s way more fluid than M&B. It uses a one-button block which you have to time by looking at your opponents weapon just as he swings it at you. I think that works well. In the moment you block, you can que an attack (like a quick stab) and it will roll off your parry much quicker than if you parried and then attacked. So I guess Chivalry will be a bit similar in that you have to time your parry to riposte with a quick one-click-parry button. What is different and new in Kingdom Come, which everyone seem to dislike, is the ability to hold down your parry button and you will automatically parry incoming attacks without the ability to riposte and at the cost of stamina. I don’t see anything bad with this, it has its downsides - if you want to just be on the defensive, you’re not going to have the initiative in attacking, and you’re going to lose stamina deflecting blows. If you wanna start taking a few risks, you will turn all your parries into attacks, if you can time the parries right.

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#40

But you know that simply right-clicking without movement automatically applies the correct block, don’t you? This is why the blocking system in Mount and Blade is waaaay too easy.

#41

Having some experience with real fencing, I think a single block button represent well the reality. When you block an incoming direct attack it’s very hard to fumble and get caught. Of course I’m not speaking about feints or attack renewal here. But on a simple attack, the intention of blocking it is all you need to succeed. I do think however that an attack should ‘‘break’’ your block. That means you have to click again to parry the next incoming attack. This would somewhat recreate the timing needed to execute your actions.

#42

Ignoring footwork, shields and a timing bonus for blocking, all of which seem to be in both games, lets look at basic attacks and blocks for infantry:

CK: D has a great number of attacks, but only one defence. This is a one dimensional system. 18+1 is 19.

M&B has 4 types of attack and 8 types of defence (possibly you haven’t learned to riposte). This is a two dimensional system. 4x8 = 32, 32+4 = 36.

So M&B has almost twice as many basic combat actions and they are distributed very well between offensive and defensive roles.

As I already pointed out, it’s more realistic because it tests whether the player knows where the enemy weapon is, which is a fundemental requirement for success in a real combat situation. To overcome a good attack, you have to understand it on some level higher than “the enemy is attacking me”.

@YuusouAmazing

You must realise that’s only beginner mode. When autoblock is turned on, you lose a percentage of your score.

@Cerberus

I’m comparing a game currently in pre-alpha, set for 2015 release with a game that was in pre-alpha in 2003, released in 2008. If that seems unfair, compare it with M&B: Bannerlord, which is currently in pre-alpha and will feature directional blocking in an improved system.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited about KC: D and I think there are some really good points to the combat, like directional thrusting and a deeper equipment system. I just don’t think the fighting system will be interesting to play when compared with other games, which use the M&B model. This is an rpg which has fight scenes, M&B is a fighting game which has some rpg stuff.

The reason some people are a bit disappointed by how combat will work in CK: D is that it would be so easy for this game to be a contender for both roles. Hopefully someone will manage to mod it in eventually, but it would be nicer if it were just an option straight out of the box.

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