Blocking enemy attack suggestion

Combat system
#1

Hello,
I watched your video about combat system and I was really excited with it.

But there is one think i can´t stop thinking about. Its the blocking system.
It seems strange to me that one button will block everything and to make right counterattack or the best block possible you have to wait and do nothing and start to block at the time you are almost getting hit.

Its ok, and similar system was in Arkham Asylum or Assasin´s Creed and worked great, but when i looked at your combat an idea came to my head, which could make the blocking system more real, and still really playable.

So here it is:

If i get it right, combat cursor will look somehow like this:

and you will move your mouse in direction you will want to attack, for example if I move it to top horizontal line and press some attack button, I will attack to the head and so on.

Same works for my opponent i presume.

So how about this, when i press the blocking button a partial circular segment will appear around the center of cursor, that will cover three or more or less lines. Somehow like this:

This segment would slide around the center of cursor and would block attacks that were aiming one of those lines (parts of body) and if the attack was aimed to the line in the middle i would make the perfect block and can make counter attack or enter the medieval bullet time or whatever you meant to make when player did blocking the right way.

It seems good to me, because when i imagine that I am attacked by sword or something similar i would just swing my weapon approximately against direction of attacking weapon, and this mouse movement seems really similar to me.

Also auto-blocking could be gained by perks. Or you would upgrade your blocking segment to cover more lines.

Next good thing about it is that you would use your beautiful cursor for both - attacking and blocking!

What do you think about that?

21 Likes
Combat System Update!
Blocking in this game
Combat System Update!
Blocking in this game
Combat System Update!
Soubojový systém
#2

someone came up with a nice argument in support of one button blocking, i think it was good. the only real reason you would block in a different direction than the incoming blow/thrust is if you were faked. so all they need to do is make it so you block the wrong location if you block too early and the enemy changes direction. blocking in this game is about timing.

mount and blade was wrong about this. you won’t block up if weapon is incoming from bottom in real life, why should you be allowed to do so in a game?

7 Likes
#3

Wouldn´t it restrict the movement of the player? And if the player wanted to do some other action, like throw a knife at another enemy?

#4

From what I saw, it seems that during a fight, you will be somehow locked with view onto your opponent.

#5

It’s definitely ok to suggest things like this, afterall this is what the forum is for, but do you really believe they haven’t thought about it? Like seriously? They make a medieval game, they focus on combat on that level that they even hire swordsmen and mo-cap them, they sell it as a revolutionary combat system, and yet they haven’t thought about system of defense based on directions of attacks? I’m actully wondering that you’ve backed this project if you think of them so low.

#6

I dont think low of them, and I will be happy if they tell me: we thought about it and it doesnt work, or we tried that and our system is better.

I dont mean it like: Hey listen to the god, i am so clever!

But if we wont say anything just because they are Warhorse, they thought of everything, whats the point of this forum?

3 Likes
#7

Its about the feeling of really blocking the attack. Not just being invulnerable for the time you pressing the block button.
And you could be keep getting better in that.

3 Likes
#8

For less obvious things i guess. Maybe it’s just me, but I consider you suggestion on the same level as “have you thought about adding a health bar?”.

1 Like
#9

Everyone’s suggestions are worthwhile. Even if they are ideas that have already been considered by the developers at Warhorse. This game is a work in progress, and thus is still at a stage where feedback on mechanics is appreciated and may even be implemented. They’re making a game not only for themselves, but for us as well. I personally think that by having more control over your ability to evade and defend attacks as well as perform attacks, combat becomes more challenging and varied. Challenge and Variation are two factors that I greatly enjoy. Not everyone may enjoy each others vision for a mechanic, but it’s up to Warhorse to ultimately determine the form that a mechanic should take. To each his own :smile: !

2 Likes
#10

As I said, you might be right and if they reply to me, i at least will know why its wrong, or why is the one they chose better.

#11

I agree with making the blocking system more dynamic and less automatic, if that doesn’t ruin the balance of the combat system.

4 Likes
#12

I can only agree with this idea. I’m playing WB since 2010 and one of the best thing is that the combat is all based on player’s skills. At the beginning it’s hard, maybe frustating, but playing let you to improve your skills and then when you’re good in parry the game become even better.

I think that auto-defense button is usefull and it’s ok, but an option to disable it allowing manual defense could make the simulation better :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#13

I think you are all forgetting that static blocks is the way a bad swordman do things.

In stead of doing a static block like in M&B, it is much better to intercept the blade soner in a way where you both redirect the blade and move into an Attack where you hit the enemy in the same move.
And for that, timing is everything.

This system clearly focus more on the timeting of “move” than doing a static block in the correct direction.
And I think that is a very interesting way to do it.

2 Likes
#14

Yeah, to staticly stand with your sword in position and wait for attack seems weird.

Also why would enemy strike to your sword when he see where you hold it before he attacks. If he really want to kill you he would strike from the exact oher side.

But imagine that block button is on Right Mouse Button and the fight starts.

Enemy starts to attack and you watch from which direction he want to strike, for example he raise the sword above his head.
So you quickly press and hold RMB and move your mouse a little forward.
That way you will cover your head and shoulders. The swords will collide. And attack will be blocked.
And of course the same would work for every direction he choose.

#15

In a normal sword fight (without a shield) you will hold your sword pretty much in the “up” center in between yourself and the enemy and place yourself in a line behind it. From that position you can pretty much block all frontal attacks. (exactly like in the video)
The moves are like the 5 points on the hit zone thing. Move arm left or right and keep arm straight to block all attacks to the upper body from the side. Move the sword towards a horizontal position to block a strike to the head. Drop the tip from your sword to the left or the right to block attacks to the legs.

Standing statically is only logical if your opponent doesn’t move either, and that doesn’t happen, attacking is moving.

Aside from the combat in the video I can’t recall any game where this looks realistic (that I played).

I liked what I saw in the video a lot because it reminded me of the basic block moves I learned in real life sword fighting. I learned different counterattacks however :stuck_out_tongue: (but those I learned were based on speed, not on power)

#16

Some comments, here:

“In a normal sword fight (without a shield) you will hold your sword pretty much in the ‘up’ center in between yourself and the enemy and place yourself in a line behind it.”

Longsword fencing actually involves several guards, and Liechtenauer states you should constantly shift between them. The “classic” hilt-at-hip-point-at-opponent’s-face guard we see in the video is pflug. However there are four guards in German longsword during the period covered by the game (others were added later, based on transitional positions, such as langen ort/long point), excluding that there are left and right versions of pflug and ochs, and left, right and center versions of vom tag. Each covers a different opening (IE, vom tag at the right shoulder covers the upper-right opening, leaving the other three quadrants (upper left, lower left, lower right) open. You don’t WANT to stay in that one guard, because it limits your options and tells your opponent where you’re open. Per Liechtenauer, every time you move you should be in a different guard to keep changing your openings.

“From that position you can pretty much block all frontal attacks.”

And then your opponent throws a schielhau to offset your guard and stabs you in the face. That’s what the meisterhau were primarily for: Breaking your opponent’s guard.

“Move the sword towards a horizontal position to block a strike to the head.”

The Germans actually don’t advocate purpose-blocking at all. Don’t make the mistake of the Italian practitioners thinking this means the Germans don’t block at all, though (that really annoys me). What the German school teaches is that you defend with an attack. IE, if you attack with a standard oberhau, I might defend by stepping to the side and throwing a Zwerchau, which both closes off your line of attack and cleaves off the top of your head. If I only attempt to block, that gives you the initiative because it keeps me responding to your actions. Instead, I defend in a way that attacks YOU in turn, so not only am I covering myself, but I’m taking the initiative. There’s exceptions, of course. Maybe I’ll defend myself from an oberhau by dropping into hangen, but the whole purpose is still to put myself into position to counter (I drop low, cover with hangen, and on blade contact I step around and pop up with a cut to your head).

“Drop the tip from your sword to the left or the right to block attacks to the legs.”

Actually, you wouldn’t block to defend the legs in longsword. In fact, you don’t normally target the legs at all, at least not to open an exchange. If your opponent is attacking your legs, the response is to step out and cut to his head, because you can hit his head at a greater distance than he can hit your legs due to how the angles work. This is one of the uses of scheitelhau. That’s not to say there’s NOT times where you cut to the leg, but that’s generally going to be a follow-up on another attack, rather than an opening attack, and you certainly won’t be staying in at that distance.

14 Likes
#17

Even the “timing” reaction is more valuable in a manual block I think.
You can stay parried and parry the swing, or if you parry only in the second of the impact you’ll get the counter attack.

I want to be more precise: I think that auto-block-button has to be inserted in game but even a more difficult option like “manual block” could make the difference.

1 Like
#18

This actually helps me understand it pretty well.

1 Like
#19

Thats a good idea! Something like the optional Hardcore mode in New Vegas!

Then its up to you how you wanna play it.

#20

I always thought that the stationary block is a stupid move, blocker need to use more force than attacker thanks to mass and acceleration of the weapon. It is nice thing to know that I came to same conclusion with medieval wariors.

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