You’d be surprised how much it’s the opposite. On a technical level, yes every action as a correct response to it, but a fight is 90 % about intentions. The guard position is made so the only thing you have to worry about is putting an obstacle to the enemy attack for him to miss, 90 % of which isn’t even a blade action but a feet action. I’m not an expert fighter, but I do have 7 years of boxing and fencing (both historical and sport) under my belt.
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I don’t care about what keys I need to push… I look at how the character use his gear.
And M&B is in no way realistic when you look at how the character actually swing the sword and use a shield…
I this game better? actually rather hard to tell in first person… guess time will tell.
But the fact that you have binds makes it 10x timers more realistic in my book… since since swordsmanship is in the binding… and what you do from there.
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I completely agree that footwork is far more important than any blocking or deflection. I disagree with the idea that it’s not also reliant on understanding the position and action of the foe.
It’s difficult to discuss the animations used in KC: D, because it’s pre-alpha and they’re not final. They are cinematic, but they are not realistic. I don’t have a huge problem with this, but someone taking your position might if you noticed it. A swordsman fighting in the way shown in the current animations would break the weapon very quickly (just as in M&B Warband, but this is last generation M&B, the next one will apparently be improved). I don’t know what kind of swordsmanship the man in your avatar practices, but the aim in serious combat is not to clash swords.
Unless you are too slow to perform the better action, you should step out of the way or divert the blade rather than blocking it.
I expect the system will be improved, since Warhorse have asked the community to provide better reenactors and they seem to have the right idea with the way armour deflects a weapon (except thrusts, so far!), so doing the same for weapons is quite possible. None of this has any effect on gameplay though.
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I agree, position and action of the foe is important, but I think it’s less important than the intention to ward the attack. This is why a feint can trick you and some parry just don’t work against certain blades actions. But it’s far easier to assess a foe position in real life than it is on a 2 dimensional screen. Because of that I think a little ‘‘help’’ by reducing the block to a single action works good, especially after you are trained a bit, a block is almost an automatic process. Strangely, in all games where you need to be in the correct position, it never seems to work as good.
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It may be automatic to perform the correct complicated motions when you are a skilled swordsman, just as it may be automatic to use the controls correctly when you are skilled in playing a game with realistic combat.
The playable character begins as a non-combatant and the player begins as an unskilled realistic combat game player. This seems like a marvelously happy coincidence, but it’s squandered by the decision to use unrealistic combat controls.
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I have to agree with @JPTrudel . I’m not trained swordsman, but I did some fencing with friends, when they attended historical fencing lessons and we had couple of swords borrowed. After I learned some of the basic blocks, the blocking was quite straightforward. I never blocked the wrong way unless faked. The more important was the speed, if I was able to put it there before he hits me, or if I was able to recover from my attack into defensive stance/position (and also the movement/footwork). So the one button parry actually seems ok to me.
Also, similar thing applies to martial arts, where I have much more experience. The fight is more about the speed, position and feint than anything else.
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I hope it will be different to the way M&B works. First of all I like M&B alot. Though only with mods. And I dont mind the M&B way of fighting your way through. But it is a lil bit unrealistic.
Enemies go down too easy. Too much dmg done overall. Almost every arrow/bolt is a onehit wonder. It’s simply not possible to kill a fullarmored knight within a blink of a second. I have to say I play M&B on default settings. And even without the one blocks them all butten- Blocking is too easy in M&B. After several Hours of gameplay and experience I could atleast defeat 40 highly armored top tier troops without breaking a sweat. If you can avoid the arrows in M&B its easy as cake. Right now I play as an archer/Polearm Footsoldier because imho its way more difficult to master than 1h/shield/lance. And in an average battle (about 300vs300) I still kill up to 80 guys all by myself. And even if you are unexperienced und unskilled just walk backwards and hit the hell ou thet attackbutton; if you are armed with a twohanded weapon u still make a decent fighter in M&B.
M&B is lots of fun but it is arcade. It’s like slaughtering lamb. I don’t know about multiplayer though but that doesnt really matter because KC is a singleplayer only game and I like it that way.
I hope KC will have a fighting system that is easy to learn and difficult to master. It’s an RPG after all.
@Neon_Knight I like your Idea. The player has to counter the attack properly and it gives Warhorse the possibility to make the fight look fluent without breaking immersion. As a player you should have a small window to react to the threat properly.
A perfect reaction can result in a counterattack or stagger the opponent somehow
a normal reaction blocks the hit with no to less stamina loss
A badly timed block can still block but hurts your stamina alot
Pointing the steel in the wrong way might hurt u badly or result in a fatal blow depending on your current situation
Thats the way I’d prefer blocking.
But I trust the developers with this decision.
And there will be the some fighting in the later stages of the alpha if I’m to totally mistaken, we will have the opportunity to experience the fighting for ourselves. Right now its just alot of guessing.
Just my 2 cents
Cherio
Sir Nikodemus
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I agree that killing wihtout any blade on blade contact is the perfect way to do it.
But if two guys with longswords who know what they are doing and are both ready. It will be rare to get a kill without some sort of bind.
As I understand the system, if you press the parry key at the right moment, you get the option of making a move" from the bind… or redirecting the enemy balde and hit him. instead of just doing a static block.
But may main point im is that M&B is not historical… and time will tell of this is better.
(talking the current version of M&B, if the next one is better, that is just great)
Another topic is how is works as a game and combat system in a game.
Thank you sir!
Will see whats it gonna look like in final version of the game.
In modern or classical fencing (that’s with a smallsword), I’d say you are somewhat right, but in a full armor it’s far from true. There’s lot of techniques not to mention half-swording that requires binds, press and grazes.
You are quoting out of context. and reply like you simply didn’t read the rest of my post…
I pointed out in an earlier post that binding is the core of fighting with longswords.
MEEVARTHEMIGHTY argued that sidesstepping and similar is more important.
In the post you quote I also wrote:
“But if two guys with longswords who know what they are doing and are both ready. It will be rare to get a kill without some sort of bind.”
So how is that different from you comment?
But If I can find some way to kill an enemy in armor in one strike, surely that must still be the perfect way to do it… But it it off cause very unlikely. (maybe he had his visor up, and was “sleeping”)
I don’t get why games don’t allow for complete free blocking?
We have a shield or weapon, we press the “block” button which brings up the shield/weapon to block, we then can move the mouse which in turn moves the shield/weapon anywhere around the screen and we have to actually…block the incoming attack.
This leaves it completely up to player skill and is entirely possible using a mouse or joystick on a controller.
If someone swings their weapon and it hits your shield/weapon then it’s a block, if it misses then it hits you.
This would allow for greater depth int he combat and also allow for something that is completely missing in your normal blocking mechanics with weapons going over/under a shield, things like the Flail were great at going around shields because they weren’t like other weapons with a fixed shaft.
This also could allow for them to balance shields/bucklers. Where you have smaller ones be more quick and able to be “readied” faster and actually being able to move quicker in the direction you move your mouse, whereas the larger shields take longer to ready and move around.
So if you’re fighting in melee combat a buckler might be easier/quicker to use to block attacks and open counter attacks.
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YES!! I 100% agree with this forums suggestion please warhorse don’t pull an assassin creed wit hyour blocking and countering, I want to FEEL A CHALLENGE!! I want to have a very real chance of blocking the wrong direction and failing! But like previously posted here I would also like it to become easier as I level up ex I cant be faked into blocking early even if I did block early because the game simply ignored it, allowing for a redeeming block because of my characters skill. PLEASE ! I realize you have a nice combat system but even if you just make it a side setting kind of like how dead island had a side setting so that you could choose the angle you swong your sword/ wepon rather then the default swinging pattern!!!
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I believe that a good solution would be that of Mount and Blade: let the player choose between two ways of blocking: one, fully automatic like the one that has been shown in the videos (just push the blocking button with timing and accuracy), and another that requires the player to select a direction for blocking successfully. Even if those two modes are completely different from the actual blocking modes of M&B (which has its failures, of course): what I’m trying to point out here is that they let you CHOOSE between an easier mode and a more difficult mode.
It’s the same that happens with many other aspects of the game that have been discussed in these forums: let the players choose, but do offer choices for both kinds of gamers. That way, you’ll satisfy them both.
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This is understood, but to bind the weapon, you don’t just hold yours out in its way, as we see in the videos, so it’s not realistic at this stage.
The way I understood that timing mechanic is that you can block the attack by holding block or you can block or deflect it and strike in one motion if you time it perfectly. There is a similar but more in-depth system in M&B, where blocking with perfect timing will make your next attack much faster, but if instead of blocking, you perform the correct stroke, you deflect the enemy weapon and strike in one motion.
It’s probably not feasible to include more systems like this in KC: D, because the team seems committed to the number of animations they already have ahead, which is very reasonable, but manual blocking for the PC version wouldn’t require any new animations, just some keybinding and the admission that it’s a good thing to improve the PC version even if the console one can’t benefit from the improvement.
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Sorry, you are right I didn’t understand the rest of your post. English isn’t my first language. But what I meant by that, is that if killing without any blade contact happen to be the perfect way, then you would train the majority of your time without blade contact to make sure you get the perfect kill more often.
But with plate armors, I think it’s more a ‘‘lucky’’ way than a perfect way if you get to win without any blade contact.
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Sorry for the double post, what do you guys think of a system where when you block, you can press a key to bind the opponent weapon (hence somewhat trap him) so you can get an advantage on your counter strike ? That could use the direction and timings mechanics for correct blade placement, it’s more in depth and realistic yet it use a single button for blocking.
I like, how block melee was implemented in Gothic 2, when the block had to be put in time of attack of enemy (if a little earlier or later - the block did not work) . Apparently it is semi automatic. It looked pretty dynamically. I would be very glad to see such in Kingdom Come!
I 100% endorse this idea, a great blend of M&B directional blocking and Kingdom Comes’ currently planned combat would make it the greatest medieval combat game. Unfortunately I suspect this can’t be implemented due to controllers being shitty.
it can’t and won’t be implemented because m&b’s combat is shitty and based on myths and bad design, and they wish not to replicate that in a next-gen game.