Combat "Discussion" - Dev Spotted


#261

The issue is that a lot of the moves you don’t know if you can really do or not based on the characters skill level. A jack of all trades character has such tight windows for everything that the odds of making a combo or nearly nil, and outright impossible for the diplomacy build.


#262

That is the point, isn’t it?
If you want to solve issues by force you will be better at it but worse at diplomacy.
And if you want to solve problems by diplomacy, you will be worse at combat.

But combat is not completely polished so the nuances of combat difficulty between “diplomat” and “fighter” play styles will be yet adjusted. But how, i cannot say.


#263

What is needed a most would be better feedback of why you failed, OR better feedback of what you can or cannot do. Because when all animations are the same, its hard to tell if I just messed up my move, or it is impossible to do the move because of my skills.


#264

I think that this is also part of our combat system, the uncertainty of whether you will succeed or not.
But for details you would have to ask @Vik


#265

I’m currently playing Diplomat Henry and I grabbed a bow at the first opportunity. I used it to drop a Cuman and took his armor. The ability to speak has gotten Diplomat Henry farther in the quests than Squire Henry…until he has to fight.


#266

I guess that could be true :slight_smile:
What I would expect and would really like would be perk for that - ability to judge your opponents either before you start fighting, or after few swings (thats when you usually find out that your opponent is better than you) :slight_smile:


#267

I have been a fencing instructor for over 30 years and I teach my students methods of determining an opponent’s abilities before a fight starts:
Build is the first -Does he look like he has superior upper body strength? A strong fighter could handle a blade with greater ease or a heavier weapon with the ability a “normal” strength person would heft a smaller weapon.
Size - I usually have my student look at the opponent in relative to their own size. In a fencing bout, a centimeter’s reach could mean the difference between victory and defeat. If the opponent is taller, their reach is usually slightly longer; If the opponent is much taller, their reach is usually considerably longer. Many of my students were women, who were shorter than most men and I taught them to get inside the reach of many opponents, fight aggressively and use their greater dexterity.

I could go on with a dissertation of stance, grip, handedness, etc., but I’ll save it for my book. :slight_smile:


#268

Actually a good keyword.
I have learned that direct and instant feedback plays a major role in gaming psychology and is one of the reasons a game can be fun … or frustrating.

I think balancing and refining the learning curve for the combat system should be one of the major tasks for Warhorse now and I believe I heard it actually is. :racehorse:


#269

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the clunky and confusing combat system. That needs some serious reworking or it will be a huge negative mark on this game when its released.


#270

Okay. Before this thread goes any further consider: have you fooled yourself into thinking that “Q” is a block all button, or did you already know that while blocking, you have to position your direction star to match the enemy’s angle of attack?


#271

You don’t have to.
If you push “Q” at the right moment, you will block the enemy attack. That is all you need to do.
Unless it was combo attack in which case you can’t block no matter if you direct the block or not.

However, if you have the sword in the position to match the enemy attack, you should be able to block a bit more easily. I do not use that though.


#272

You can push Q all the time for block every attack. But if you push q in the right timing you trigger a slomotion window for a conterattack. The enemy can conter your conter…and i think, if you push Q all the time, your stamina dont recharge.


#273

Yes, with good timing you can make this slow motion block and then initiate an attack that can be blocked only by the same slow motion block.

…and if your timing is even better, you automatically made counterattack in one motion with your block (special animation).
That counterattack cannot be dodged or blocked no matter the timing.

Same is for combos. The attacks that leads to combo can be blocked or dodged, but the final one can not.


#274

So I was late to check this quite recent version of the combat system:

I have to say I love KCD Combat System. One thing, that I would really like to see added though, is facial expressions of enemies during combat. It is not perfect, but it is deep innovative and I think it is pretty interesting combat system though. I think a big problem for people who has actually tried the combat, is the tutorial from the Beta. It is going to be important to have a better designed trainers in gold versions for people. Anyway, I can see that some part of the internet is disliking combat animations and rigid/unresponsive controls. What do you guys think they should focus on polishing till release?

BTW we miss you Pane @Vik , long time no see. We know you are too busy crunching right now. But it would be awesome to hear some little update from you in Weekly Torch maybe? Or is it true that you are too shy for that :smiley: ?


#275

The recent version has too many sparks and to few really important visual feedback like scratches in the armor and dents after each hit, torn clothes, bloody clothes :frowning:


#276

He is very busy at the moment, but I will try to get him for the Weekly Torch at some point. :slight_smile: