Combat System Discussion

I mentioned hearing already in connection with hoods, but helmets are much more important, true. Visors should be reflected ingame, hopefuly better than in War of the Roses. Even usual roman helmet tamper with your sight little because of farepieces. And with many helmets you can’t look up easily because of neck protection.

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I dont know If someone already mentioned it.
They said something about Combos and stuff. I dont know but I dont know, if this is to unrealistic for you guys? :smiley:
I played M&B and War of the Roses and I queit liked the combat sytem but in the Videos from KCD it looked more realistic and not so spammy fast like in Mount and Blade.

I hope that the Combos wont be anyoing and fit in the game… really looking forward to this.

Regards NIN3.

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I just noticed something in video update 2, time 1:40. When they are equiping characters’s head: batwat (padded hat) is first to appear then a bascinet a then the visor itself. Either they changed head equip each time, or there are three slots for head, which would be great. Nice work Warhorse! :wink:

I have bin following the work Roland Warzech have bin doing for the last couble of years.
Please, Devs… if you need information/inspiration about sword and buckler use… contact him.
(He is btw also a fantasic illustrator… and publish a magazin about sword and buckler combat: www.facebook.com/pages/Dimicator)

LEONTIUS
You don’t need a long swing for a strong attack… what you need it proper body Merchanics using the hip…

Or proper using of wrist or many others, but still you don’t deliver as powerful attack as with long sword. Just trying to prove, that long sword strikes faster :wink:

but since you don’t need that much power to hurt a unarmored person (pulling or pushing is much more important… just try cutting a steak) and you can’t cut thought plate armor even with very powerfull strikes it is not that relevant…

But I totally agree that the longsword allows you to make a number of “plays” faster than a similar “play” with a single handed sword, because of the long “handl” that you manipulate with two hands…

And the fighting in the trailer did look slow… but I rather it is slow and I can actually follow what is going one than it is too fast.

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You are right about the armor and I agree that a combat in trailer was a bit lazy. We are still waiting for a good update about combat system. I would like to hear something from developers.

Long swords are very fast partially due to the lever effect allowing the wielder to apply more torque. Later period long swords, as would be appropriate in this game, also tend to have their center of balance closer to the guard than one handed swords. That decreases the moment of inertia and makes them even faster than a 1-H. (The opposite is true of long swords from the 13th century, say a type XIII, which are blade heavy with the CoG furhter out. They’re were designed to deal with the heavy mail used at that time and not poke through gaps in plate.)

They are not wearing 60 pounds of armor. Real heavy weapons and armor combat is far slower than most games, movies and these unarmored demo videos would have you believe. But as long as the combat is not “arcade” speeds I guess It will be ok.

I have fought in full speed full armored combat with 10 pound shields and 3 to 4 pound swords for 30 years in the SCA.
See here: http://wiki.caid-commons.org/index.php/Patrick_Levi_Darkwrath

Now I spend all my free time moding combat in games to be more realistic such as my Duke Patrick Heavy Weapons Combat Oblivion mod. Yes reflex is part of real life combat but for a game to allow you to do things more than just bash attack buttons you need time to react with thought and not JUST reflex. Because the PC screen is 2d and a small window to the world you are fighting in you need slightly slower combat than if you were swinging a real weapon in the real world.

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With all due respect, I don’t think SCA combat very accurately reflects historical combat.

As all do our group has flaws in the simulation, but it is one of the only organizations that hit full power while in real armor.

They may hit full force, but the ruleset and equipment (particularly rattan sticks) don’t have a historical basis. I’m not saying it’s completely worthless, as it most assuredly requires a great deal of skill and endurance, but it’s a combat sport, much like kendo.

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The weapons we use are blunt but weight and balance are realist per historical samples such as the weapons found in sunken battle ships of the time period 1600’s ( like the mary rose) , it is defiantly not like a shinai.

This allows us to swing them as realistically as we can without killing people.

EDIT:
I only get three replies? wow… ok then this is my last:

Yes as I said all such simulations have flaws, Each one has its focus. Ours is on timing, feints and force:

Here: http://www.spookyfx.com/book/tromp.html

How about getting back to the subject? I wonder if the game could include a “speed” option?.

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3-4 lb strikes me as rather heavy for historical weapons. Longswords tended to be more in the 1-2 lb range, if I’m not mistaken.
Also, my point had less to do with rattan being as light as a shinai and more that the rules of the disallow a great deal of historical techniques (such as grappling).

Isn’t SCA’s unofficial motto “History the way it should have been?”

SCA is NOT historical… the name pretty much say so.
At best it is a historical inspired sport.
Offcause the same goes for something like vikinge age free style… and most reenactment type fighting.
Safety rules banning some attackes and limited hitzones and systems where armour give ekstra “lives” or hitpoints makes the fighting less historical.

Also hitting full power with a sword is not really that relevant when the guy you are hitting is wearing plate armour… since you are newer going to cut thought it.
Then you need to do half-swording and similar Technics.

For unarmoured 1 vs 1 fighting I think HEMA/ARMA gives the best idea about it… But even that have it problems… to little padding and you need to be carefull not to hurt the target. To much padding and it effects your movement.
A blunt sword don’t bind as well and in the same way as a sharp…
and so one…

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I agree. Even though these guys are not wearing armour. A warrior who has trained all his life with armour would still be pretty damn quick. Especially when full of adrenalin and literally fighting for their life.

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Also long arm type weapons were common among the levy people at this time in history. The famous battle of Courtrai (1302), Bannockburn (1314) and even the famed Swiss pikes (see battles of Grandson and Murten, both in 1476) in the 14th century lead the way for massed pole type weapons being used in combat to great effect.

It would be a shame if such an important type of weapon was left out.

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This would really add to the immersion of the game! Currently War of the Roses (game) does it and also a new sci-fi game, Interstellar Marines. The latter has much better immersion as the helmet changes the sounds around you, water droplets form on the visor and it also slightly limits vision (it is a very open face helmet).

Definitely true, though one thing I’ll say in defense of little padding is that you don’t need an overwhelming amount of force to kill someone with a sharpened sword, plus exercising control (I prefer that term to “restraint”) allows you to react to any tricks from your opponent.
But still, sparring will never be the same as real combat.

A couple of my ARMA buddies want to put on gambesons, mask, and gloves, then try some winding with sharps. Not sure I have the guts/insanity to do the same.

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Problem with SCA is probably limited using of thrusts and fact, that not everybody on the battlefield wore full armor. Though I respect them as great history-based sport.
But nobody can realy simulate everything, we can just add each other experiences.