A one button block system will kill all interest I have in the combat of this game. I’ll still play, but I’d take it about as seriously as I would Elder Scrolls Skyrim.
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Yea I really do hope they consider changing the “one button to block everything” to something else.
IMO it’d be nice if they had the option to work like how the offensive attacks work. Where you could say, click your shield/block button (IE right mouse button), then you move your shield aroun dand actually have to block in the general area of the attack that is coming at you.
Just saw the video and it drew my attention to another problem with combat in real life and ingame. I think that people in the video are starting their attacks from very unrealistic distance from each other. They are extremly close. I know that it is trainning video but it is very common problem. If I ever had an opponent so close I wouldn’t attack him with a swing or a thrust. Normal combat should start from a distance and you should be able to maintain distance properly. Closing the distance should be a part of a specific tactic.
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Kinematics are physics equations that can be used to describe motion. In game development solving these problems inversely lets you know the angles and positions of the characters joints that will result in the desired motion or position. They are just saying that they are using real physics equations trying to make it look real.
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“One button to block them all”…
That’s a bit of a let down tbh. Appropriate and sufficient for a single player game but I was still expecting more… innovation, I guess :3
Compared to Witcher or Skyrim combat, it still is an improvement. Maybe I am just too used to Mount&Blade with the full directional combat.
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A more interesting solution would be to block in 6 different directions, as with the attack. So you can block in any direction anytime, but you’ll have to choose. And if your enemy attacks from another direction, you have to be quick.
Otherwise, feinting wouldn’t make any sense. Why should I be able to trick my enemy into believing my attack will come from the other side, but he isn’t?
Greetings
Ferlonas
As I understodd it if you just hold the defense button then you do static parrys. But if you hit the buttom at the rightmoment you will do “moves” that will give you an opening.
Also I got the clear idea that just holding the parry buttom take more stamina than attacking. So you will run out of stamina and loose in the end.
So instad of 6 keys for direction. The timing in when you push the buttom is the focus.
I actually think that is an interesting way to do it.
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I actually prefer the one button control. I was afraid of the directional approach as it might be too difficult for me and I would not be able to enjoy the game.
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As I already mentioned in other thread (savegame system) I hope that the devs will implement an option for the blocking. Option 1: automatic block
Option 2: manual block (ala Mount and blade)
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I am so glad we made it to motion capture! Something I just thought about was the idea of a ‘weakened state’ - ie once you are stabbed in the chest, for instance, your moves become less effective and you perhaps adopt a poorer stance due to being in alot of pain! Some sort of responsiveness to your body being sliced up, basically - instead of just parrying back as though a mosquito bit you
There are many good notions made here, and obviously most of the people are at least interested in having a realistic combat system. I’d like to make some points about the videos posted above. First, those technique videos are great when one is studying how the techniques work (granted that the re-enactors base their simulation on actual research). What they do not show, however, is what the actual combat would look like, and that’s not even the point of these drills. It’s the same thing with the free fights: although the techniques are quite authentic, everything else is not. Free fights are done with inauthentic equipment and the point is to win the opponent not to disable or kill him. It really makes the difference if you are trying to harm your opponent or if you are only trying to get points. The problem of re-enacted mock battles, on the other hand, is that most of the people involved in them really know very little about fighting, both as individuals and as part of a group. In my opinion, the best image of medieval combat can be achieved in films like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPfLZFHcNv4&feature, where the action is based on real techniques, where everything is scripted and acted, yet done in full speed.
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It may be true that they kept shoving each other, but what I was trying to draw attention to was that it shows that hitting armoured people with weapons, even single-handed ones, can daze them, knock them down, and stun them. Bones can be broken.
If I said that some drunkards got into a fight and eventually one pulled out a knife and stabbed the other in the heart and he died, and I used it as evidence that knives can kill people in the heart, it would not make sense to say “Ah, but you see, they were also just shoving each other and stuff beforehand, which contradicts a different point about weapon effectiveness”. Not that that’s what you were saying. Yes there was a lot of shoving. There was also a lot of bashing and the bashing had some effect of the armoured people. That was my point I was trying to make by referencing the video.
fair enough bud, and since you’ve posted that video I’ve watched several more and there’s quite a bit of strategy and technique to it, beyond what can initially appear like a bunch of people with no clue running around armored.
bashing is indeed very effective, which is why use of warhammers of any sort is not permitted in medieval combat these days.
I second the motion for more winding & binding. In the combat preview video we see a couple of cases where two opponents lock swords and simply push off from each other. That would probably spend an awful lot of energy for very poor results. Hopefully the final product will allow you a few options in the bind. Perhaps this would be something available to more proficient combatants.
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Hey TREYSCEUSEC have you seen this developers statements (interview) about the combat:
**“In our case, when you hit something, we actually calculate proper collisions and physical reactions of the target. So the swords will collide when the enemy blocks your move, your sword will slide over plate armour, or if you are in a corridor, your movement with a weapon will be limited by surrounding space – your sword will slide over the walls and the damage you deal on target will be weaker.
“It doesn’t matter where you are, what you hit, its always unique and physically accurate.”
Enemies without armour can be killed in one hit, and heavily armoured knights are almost invincible – until you wear them down enough to expose an opening in their plate mail. This applies in reverse, by the way, so you’ll need to manage your own stamina carefully.**
This game could not be better than if they hired me as a consultant. I mean if I owned the company the combat would be very different from anything ever seen in video games. But if I was hired as a consultant I would be thrilled if the only thing they actually implement in combat from my guidance was the above.
After reading the various “experts” opinions (some completely nonfactual and only rude trash talk of other people) in this forum I was worried. But after finding out that the DEV used B.O.N consultants, it looks like WarHorse agrees with us as to what organization has the closet thing to real life heavy weapons combat.
They do almost the same thing we in the SCA do but they take it to the next level (evidently their insurance companies are less “skittish” than here in America).
I like to think of them as the SCA on steroids. Many of our members also participated in the B.O.N.
I am happy I lived long enough to see this game made. I have dreamed about this for over 30 years now.
Oh, and it will be more or less mod-able. I am very happy I supported this.
Every time somebody mention SCA or BON is shake my head. Since both are not historical. but at best historical inspired sports.
SCA don’t use medieval weapon but wood sticks making it no more relevant than groups who use plastic wasters or foam… Even the name say it clearly
BON bans a lot of the technicians you would use. like stabbing into the openings in the armour. For satiety sake it is a very good idea, but it removed many of the historical part.
Many use items that we simply don’t have any sources on. (like most of the shields that don’t make any since in a real fight.)
What both group can do, is give a idea of how a battlefield with hundred of people looks like… but so can reenactments.
The only really relevant people are the few people in the ARMA/HEMA community that actually do proper research.
And the even fewer that do combat in full armor and study the Technics for defeating a person in full armor.
And that also rules out most ARMA/HEMA people… since most only do the fighting part and don’t the research them self.
Most people, SCA, BON, Reenactment, ARMA or what ever just look at what everyone ells is doing. Both when we are talking clothing, weapons,armor and how to fight…
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Your combat is only going to be slow if you’ve made yourself slow by picking heavy weapons, if you like fast paced combat then choose lighter weapons and then there will be no problem.
I’m a bit surprised that people talk so much about sword vs sword gameplay and not the various other weapons of the late medieval armory and warfare. Sure, Warhorse only showed us sword vs sword so far (and I guess that’s all they have at the moment) but that’s only a very small part of what would be a realistic display of actual combat during these days.
As they said themself Warhorse want to include as many (historical) weapons as possible but it’s nowhere near set in stone that there will be many. They already showed us that the combat system seems to work great with swords but it also seems that other weapons are much more difficult to implement (not only flails. For example they have no real idea so far how to make polearms work in their system, as Dan admitted in the livestream.
Sword vs sword aka “fencing” is done pretty well but it’s also among the easiest parts in a profound combat system based on the whole medieval armory. It’s only one “encounter” among many and all of them should be different. For example fighting sword vs polearm is based on a whole different skillset than sword vs sword. The swordfighter for example would have to avoid hits in general since the range of his weapon and the force to use it is inferior. The swordfighter has to rely on fast reflexes trying to find a gap in the defense in order to close the distance to the opponent.
Another really unaddressed problem so far is the various surfaces of different weapons. Sword vs swords is pretty simple because there is just a plain steel blade on both sides. But when fighting against an axe, a mace or a polearm there is a long wooden (or steel) shaft and a rather small blade and there are various edges and geometrical forms. For a realistic combat system with these weapons you would have to take all these characteristics into account and reflect them in the actual fighting simulation.
I think Warhorse has done a great job so far with the sword vs sword combat but the biggest challenges are still unsolved. So I wouldn’t be too surprised if many of the desired weapons of some people won’t appear in the game because they are simply too hard to implement in a meaningful way. On the other side I wouldn’t of course be very happy if Warhorse could solve as many of these problems and challenges as possible…
I’m very curious to see how they progress on that issus, that’s for sure… 
First off “fencing” isn’t just sword vs. sword, it’s derived from the art of “defence” which was shortened to just “fence”. So it actually just means all martial forms of defense. The first historcal manuscript (other than some ancient Greek descriptions of pankration, or wrestling) covers primarily sword and buckler. Many of the manuscripts in the 16th century in particular often cover a wide variety of weapons. Marozzo, for example, covers everything for daggers through pikes and often dealing even with different weapons against them. (One of his pictures shows a man armed with a sword and rotella, a large round forearm shield, facing a pike seen coming in from the side and there are quite a few broken spear head around him, suggestive of not necessarily needing to close to spear if you carry a sword but that you could also cut the head of the thing off as well, This is likely the reason for langets, or iron strips, down the sides of many polearms near the business end.)
At any rate, most modern HEMA practitioners are most used to studying longsword, sword and buckler, saber, and the various rapier forms probably more than anything so those are the forms most easily commented on about actual historical style and such. There are more than a few practitioners out there in some of the less common forms, particularly dagger and staff, and various polearms. Even fewer when it come to lance (those crazy, beautiful folk who do that for real have my utmost respect and admiration, BTW.) And in movies and even RPGs the sidearm, swords, tend to have the primary focus in a fight rather than the fact that those were really just sidearms to the real weapons, polearms. Much like a pistol is to a solider today compared to an assault rifle.
It seems that from the information we have so far, though, these are things the developers have been thinking through, so I trust we’ll see some good things on those fronts.Especially if they get some of the experienced HEMA folks in their area to help out.
how can I duel in this game. My character is attacking with both mouse buttons and dont use shield. how can I defend with shield or sword.