Cutscenes, Character Customisation and the HUD

Gameplay
#1

A few thoughts/requests.

CUTSCENES:

I hope that there will be no pre-rendered cutscenes in the game as 1. They will not match your character (clothing, appearance, weapon used etc.) and 2. Even at 1080p videos aren’t crisp on larger higher definition screens. I’m running a 30 inch screen @ 2560x1600 at the moment, by the end of 2015 I may well be using a 45-50 inch 4K TV as my primary PC display (for work also) and jumping from a pixel-perfect 4K to a mushy 1080p would be less than ideal.

I’m a huge fan of the first person viewpoint and am very glad to hear that Dan also shares this opinion. For me it is much better than third person from an immersion perspective. My personal view is that games (such as this) should not have any cutscenes at all and rather remain entirely first person throughout, telling the story instead through scripted events such as Half-Life and it’s sequel. Given Dan’s take that the player should never be able to break form first person when playing the game, why then have cutscenes in third person? If I concede that it’s easier to tell a complex story through cutscenes rather than scripted events wouldn’t it better to retain the first person perspective during the cutscenes also?

CHARACTER CUSTOMISATION:

I understand that we will be playing as the character of the blacksmith’s son (Henry?). Given that the character creation tools seem so powerful, what’s the reasoning behind not letting us customise his appearance before beginning the game and to a greater degree than just hairstyles? He will still be a man, and his name can’t be changed (due to recorded dialogue), but assuming the cutscenes aren’t pre-rendered why not let us change his face etc.? The reason I ask this is that it seems to break nothing at all in terms of the story and plausibility of the game world, but for people like myself who prefer to role-play as themselves in another world rather than as someone else in another world it’s an easy way of increasing the immersion/tie between the character and the player.

HUD:

I really hope that we’ll be able to fully configure the HUD in the final version. I like to play with as minimal a HUD as possible as I find it far more immersive. I cringe at the sight of the very large compass indicator in the recent videos for e.g. To me their inclusion in this way goes against the ‘first person = maximum immersion’ mentality. Whilst some HUD elements are essential, it’s amazing what you can get away with turning off (try archery in Skyrim without a crosshair for a MUCH more rewarding and realistic experience for e.g. - give it a bit of time and you’ll see what I mean). I hope we’ll have a lot of options here in the final game, particularly regarding scale, translucency and contextual activation. Again, Skyrim has many great mods which I’d hate to play the game without.

Also, I don’t feel that the HUD itself needs to have a fitting medieval theme. Though I like this in the inventory screen, I think simplicity and subtlety should be of primary importance here - The more you can forget the HUD is there at all the better and sometimes it’s actually more fun/better for gameplay without it anyway (see Skyrim archery - Think of it in the same way as the ‘racing line’ in racing games, i.e. a training hint you’ll eventually want to turn off).

A few simple dots, lines, numbers and clean text when needed to convey info on a contextual basis are to me far more immersive than an encrusted, though ‘in style,’ large, opaque box floating in front of my face. Having no HUD at all ever (for a game designed with HUD in mind) isn’t a good option either though, for there are some elements that you do need to know, so just having a ‘play with no HUD’ option doesn’t cut it either.

One final note about the HUD graphics - Please master them in high resolution. Mafia 2’s were a little on the blurry side when playing on a big high def. screen and as I say this will only get worse in the future.

(FYI - I don’t mean any of these suggestions to come off as demanding in the slightest - Warhorse should make the game exactly as they see fit - These are just my thoughts on various matters ;))

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Displaying/Hiding HUD
This discussion is about an idea I have for a new feature
#2

I agree with you 100%. I feel that the game would benefit from 1 person cut scenes too. I thing they have decided otherwise to be able to make it more dramatic. It will turn out fine.

#3

to be honest half life 2 was a strange presentation. your character never talked because you’re supposed to be him. sorry, but i am not a goatee wearing scientists at black mesa. it’s ok to make him speak. it’s even ok to show him from other perspectives.

i find that type of “immersion” very contrived and artificial to the point of being somewhat of a gimmick.

also, no first person dialog without modding, as vavra stated he wanted henry’s expressions and mannerisms to be viewable during dialog.

as for cutscenes, again, it’s a dramatic game. i personally thought valve’s real reason for keeping everything 1st person was more budget related that anything, then they came up with a retroactive justification for it, like they planned it all along.

i don’t buy it, mainly because i don’t think it’s that effective, nor is it terribly realistic to have a mute protagonist ignore everything. not even a grunt.

#4

Well, then try to look at Dark Messiah in-game cutscene. I dont think it is artificial immersion… not at all.

P.S. Nobody said hero has to be mute.

#5

Well, I guess we’ll have to disagree on that one. I think it comes down the the old ‘Do you want to feel as though you’re fully embodying the PC, i.e. you are Henry’ or more along the lines of ‘I want to be guiding an existing character through his storyline and am happy to watch from third person at times as he ‘does cool stuff’.’

I personally don’t want the game to feel cinematic; I’ll be turning off the music for example as for me it lessens the immersion rather than heightens it, regardless of how well it’s done.

I can understand the benefits of both approaches, let’s say Max Payne/Mafia/The Witcher vs Skyrim/Fallout for e.g. All are great games, but personally I prefer to be able to put as much of my personality into the character as possible which favours the approach of the latter games. I don’t mind trading a more scripted ‘cinematic’ story for greater immersion/freedom of choice as in that case I feel more empowered to make my own story, albeit a less bombastic one.

Another example: I’m really looking forward to the Witcher: Wild Hunt, but not because I desperately want to be Geralt and see him do ‘cool stuff’ (particularly through cinematic cut-scenes), but much more ‘Wow, look at that amazing world - I can’t wait to explore and interact with it.’ I am still looking forward to the story and the cut-scenes look extremely well done (+ I don’t mind being Geralt ;)); just saying that this isn’t my primary motivation for playing the game by a long shot; ‘getting lost in that world and making my own decisions’ most certainly is however.

Back to KC:D - I’m also not a fan of playing as the miller’s daughter in the introduction. The reasons should by now be obvious to you; I want to imagine myself as Henry, character swapping is about as unimersive as it gets in that regard.

I voted against third-person view in the poll a while back, but to be honest if WH stick with third person cutscenes and third person dialogue I don’t see why they shouldn’t also allow a third person camera (from a purely immersive standpoint that is, the extra work involved in getting this ‘right’ will substantial IMO, despite what has been said). The original line of ‘always first-person as that’s the most immersive perspective and we don’t want to break that’ (with which I agree), doesn’t stand up very well when each and every time you speak to someone you zip out to third person.

I’ll stick to my guns for now however as I’d still like to see them nail horse riding and other ‘difficult to implement well from first-person’ items which the introduction of a playable TPV might allow them to otherwise overlook. I’d also like to see helmet visibility and other FPV-only gameplay elements introduced.

Given they’ve gone to such trouble to keep the ‘mini-games’ and horse riding first person, third person dialogue seems an odd choice to me. I understand it’s harder to tell a detailed story solely from the first person perspective, but given they chose this path might as well go the whole hog IMO.

One last thing… I haven’t been able to look at the alpha build much at all due to work + my PC being in dire need of an upgrade, but I fiercely hope they completely overhaul the HUD before release - Right now that is a massive immersion-breaker for me. Way too large, completely opaque and you’re stuck with that low-res blob (cross-hair) right in the middle of the screen. The environment artwork is absolutely fantastic (hats off to the artists); but the current ‘gamey,’ oversized HUD does it a real disservice IMO - Personally I’d rather not see any HUD elements at all for most of the game (this does not mean a menu tick-box where all of the HUD is hidden at the expense of losing important information; the game needs be be designed from the outset for a minimal HUD).

#6

It is pretty minimalist already IMO. Health and Stamina is a must and yes they could be made potentially slightly smaller but they need to be visible and easily identifiable… and the ‘blob’ crosshair is purely to help facilitate a greater sense of direction and directional accuracy. As well as acting as a sighting reference point.

Without a proper VR headset setup, then I don’t really see a way around not having some kind of reference point. The fighting mechanics at the very least are heavily reliant on directional accuracy from what we’ve been told…

#7

Well, it isnt gargantual but I dont think it is minimalist. You even have a compas.

I personaly rarely look to stamina bar at games and rather rely on sound effect (breathing) and my guess. Similar with health.

And the crossair… perhaps there will be someone who needs it but I think that most people can guess middle of the screen precisely enough.

So if there will be option to turn it off then many would use it I bet.

#8

Really?

I play all FPSs without a cross-hair where ever possible (iron sights) and have it turned off for Skyrim and modded out entirely (so it’s not there for archery either, which actually makes it much more satisfying IMO).

I’d say only KC:D’s HUD is only minimalistic in terms of number of items displayed on screen; in terms of screen space used and opacity it’s very intrusive and unnecessary IMO.

"and the ‘blob’ crosshair is purely to help facilitate a greater sense of direction and directional accuracy. As well as acting as a sighting reference point.

Without a proper VR headset setup, then I don’t really see a way around not having some kind of reference point."

Couldn’t really disagree more on this and to be honest I don’t really understand where you’re coming from here as to the ‘sense of direction’ (I can understand they you think you might need a crosshair for archery, but in reality you don’t as mentioned; swordplay, being forced as first person, should also not ideally require assists IMO).

In KC:D I find the compass completely OTT (again modded it out in Skyrim and NEVER miss it; in fact, like the lack of a cross-hair for archery, it leads to a more interesting play-style). Having it floating there all the time just looks ridiculous IMO.

As for the health and stamina - These items are important to know, I agree (which is why I say a HUD On/Off option in the menu is not sufficient), but they should fade in and out only when relevant as such things do in many games already.

I’m not suggesting WH should necessarily do this; but both items could actually be conveyed without a HUD at all:

Stamina would be relatively easy to convey through different breathing sounds, fov changes, head bobbing and slight distortion at the edges of the screen.

Health is trickier especially for an FPS (third person is much easier; blood on clothes, animations etc, or in a sci-fi setting, indicator on backpack), but depending on how it’s handed in KC:D could still be achieved without the specific requirement for a UI element. Red at the edges of the screen, distorted vision at very low heath, sound and anim cues etc.

Even if it’s deemed that all these elements are required they should IMO:

1. Fade out when not needed.

2. Be much smaller.
User scalable to suite resolution.

3. Optional on a per item basis
In particular cross-hair and compass.

4. Not be styled in a heavily worked ‘block’ as though a HUD for a strategy game.
The elements should be simple,light and clean-looking rather than heavy, detailed and in the style of the period (as though the work of a contemporary artisan).

I totally understand how some would be against this opinion (style of the period/heavily worked), but I feel pretty strongly about it, again from an immersion standpoint. It’s fine for a strategy game where you’re already removed to an extent but having HUD elements as heavily detailed rendered objects with frames and whatnot just seems odd. I get you need to know how much health you have, but a simple, unobtrusive red bar is far more realistic to me than some sort of artisan’s creation which floats in front of your face.

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#9

Let me see:

Cutscenes:
Most of them will be realtime and/or 3rd person!
Few will be 1st perosn and/or prerender!

Character:
It was Dan’s decission/view. He most likly wants to just have a bohemian looking guy who fits in our setting

HUD:
There will be mostly likely options to turn off the Hud! :smile:

:slight_smile:

#10

Couldn’t agree more :smile:

And I also agree with you on the above…clearly WH do as well in relation to the lack of crosshair for archery in-game. We can assume then that there won’t be a crosshair or target pointer for the hand-to-hand combat elements either.

How can you disagree though that the ‘blob’ as we’re calling it helps facilitate heightened accuracy? It is a reference point on screen after all, so it automatically provides players with a visual indicator of where they’re focusing… My point wasn’t so much around this being a requirement, because as you point out, many players disable a crosshair or pointer on screen for any number of reasons. But you can’t deny it’s purpose for being.

My second point on VR was more around immersion, and is a little more complicated to try put into words. IMO having a reference point doesn’t really impact the level of immersion, considering you’re already sitting down in a chair staring at a monitor. Unless you’re tricking your brain through the use of a VR head set and other associated tech; then you’re never going to feel truly immersed regardless of the HUD components on screen. Does that kinda make sense? I can’t tell :confounded:

Don’t get me wrong, I know what you’re getting at… and certain elements contribute or take away in varying degrees from the level of engagement and immersion a game affords us as gamers. But I’m just trying to think contextually in the confines of the platform that the majority of us will be experiencing this on.

#11

Crossair - it is true that it is not needed for fighting, talking any many other activites.
But when it comes to picking up small objects it is necessary or it will cost a lot of your nerves.

Ideally toogle button for showing crossair or whole disabled HUD would be more than welcome.

#12

OK, I do agree that the blob/cross-hair will give greater accuracy in terms of aiming generally (of course! ;)).

BUT, I think that it’s completely unnecessary in terms of general navigation (you don’t need a dot on screen to understand accurately in which direction you’re heading, or to navigate to/through a doorway for e.g.).

Picking up small items is a little more tricky but in reality pretty much a non-issue, but even so, compare that to having a blob in front of your vision the entire time - Something which I personally view as hugely distracting!

If this was found to be troublesome for some players however it could be easily solved by making the cross-hair/dot fade in when in the region of ‘pick-up-able’ items; think of a larger hidden circle around the ‘dot,’ if there’s an interactive object within that circle then the ‘dot’ would quickly fade in to allow you ‘precision picking’ and quickly fade out again as you looked away/you picked the object up. This would allow you to very quickly and easily pick up a small item (from say a table) without any difficulty whatsoever in ‘targeting’ it even when positioned amongst other interactive objects.

Also regarding the ‘dot’ - Aside for the visual interference, I think that this increased unrealistic precision is actually bad for game-play (reasons stated previously).

I’m sure VR is great, though admittedly I’ve not yet tried it. I game on a high res 30 inch monitor and am looking to move up to an even bigger (45-55 inch) 4K TV at some point this year (hopefully!). I do use TrackIR for Flight Sims, which is great, but I know it’s not the same thing. I imagine (note imagine) that VR is probably very immersive on some levels right now, but not so good on others (for me currently it simply would not have the resolution, so I’d be much happier with a large high res monitor/TV).

Whether wearing a headset or simply sat at a desk however, any HUD or UI that sits between myself and the game-world does have a large impact on my immersion. Sure, aside from the ‘holo-deck’ you’re never going to be ‘truly immersed,’ but I think we should try to do as much as possible with the tech that we have.

A minimal, clean and dynamic HUD gives me a far better connection to the game-world (sense of ‘being there’) than a large, solid, embellished one (did I say that already… ;)). The current KC: D HUD feels to me as though I have a sheet of acetate suspended in front of me, or that strange little hand-crafted objects are being dangled there. I know that this type of heavily-worked HUD was popular in the past with FPSs, but (thankfully) many games are now moving away from that style and trying to make the HUD as transparent (both figuratively and literally) as possible.

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#13

Thanks for the reply Tobi.

Cutscenes:
I hope that all cutscenes will be real-time in-engine as that approach looks best on high res displays, means they can be dynamic and accurate (matching correct clothes equipment and weather) and is just generally more consistent in terms of quality/overall look of the game.

Would you mind sharing why you’re considering having some pre-rendered?

Character:
I’m cool with the character ;), I just hope we’ll have a good degree of flexibility in his choices.

HUD:
Obviously I’ve stated my opinion on the type of HUD I like elsewhere ;). Whilst I most def. am pleased to hear that there will be an option(s) to turn it off, please note my concerns about this, i.e. will there still be some ways of knowing essential info (health, stamina etc.) with it disabled?

I love the idea of a ‘hardcore’ mode for e.g., but that’s a mode in which the difficulty should be increased through greater realism, not just difficulty for the sake of it. No cross-hair or compass is more realistic and challenging, which is great. However not being able to tell if you’re about to die or are exhausted, whilst certainly more difficult, is actually less realistic than having that info displayed via the HUD (as in your body would clearly be telling you IRL! ;)).

#14

Cutscenes:
Because they are easier to do! (especially when there are difficult or complex movements or stuff we don’t have animations for) :slight_smile: But as I said we try to do as many as possible in real-time/in-engine

Character:
I am sure Dan makes sure! :smile:

Hud:
See Character! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#15

Thanks a lot for the reply Tobi, much appreciated ;).

Keep up the good work!

EDIT: Would be great if those cutscenes which need to be pre-rendered (due to the issues you mention) could be mastered at 4K. 1080p could be used for the console versions (as I assume that’s max res the game will run there + to reduce disk space), but us PC gamers with high res displays would then not perceive any loss in quality when playing a movie over the pin-sharp in-engine work. Just a thought :smile:.

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