For KCD 2 please make an organic skill system

what do you think about the idea of porting the skill system directly into the game world instead open a boring menu screen where you learn new skills by making a click. I mean a skill menu is breaking the flow and rip you always out of the immersion. When Henry would learn new skills by talking to other NPCs who can train him via a dialog where they say to Henry what he has to do to become better. For example for faster riding a NPC could give Henry some hints how he has to sit on the horse to become faster. The game would not break by a menu and all that would give a more realistic feeling, making the world more organic like something that really exists. Not just a boring generic skill tree!

Look how great this works in Gothic 1 & 2. Please learn from it.
Thank you.

Talking to someone isn’t organic either. Combat skill should be acquired not by choice or simple convo but by doing

Talking to a teacher is much more organic than click on a menu screen. Combat skills should still be trained by doing. But you can’t make a training tutorial for every single skill. So just port the skill tree in the game world and learn from other people. This don’t need to be 100 % realistic, but just get rid off the skill menu (which is 0% realistic).

Many perks, skills are overkill if not immersion killing. Would rather have fewer and learn by doing (with some notion of apprenticeship framing the overall development). That’s just me. For the thin skinned and impatient, limit this tedious ‘learning by doing’ skill dev to HC mode

Yes, there are too much skills, but don’t forget this is still a role playing game and the goal is to become stronger and better after time. When you only have 5 skills then I think most people wouldn’t have fun.

Game would be really hard without some skills.

role playing… fancy the notion. acquiring skills as a consequence of learning by doing seems like role playing.

Nowadays, I think role playing is contradictory: peeps want smithing (skills) but they don’t want to actual spend time on task as it’s too tedious; moreover, seems like peeps want no opportunity costs … game sucks if choices have to be made that preclude one from being a master thief-alchemist-archer-armorsmith-longswordsman-brewer

Wasn’t really suggesting that. More thinking that Cuman killer and nettle nads (health boost) are over the top.

The apprenticeship framework reference was to suggest that some practice/repetition was needed and that there was some degree of oversight [eg Capt Bernard saw you execute fancy attack xyz in front of him a number of times, and thereafter, attack xyz enabled in combat and efficiency improved (damage inflicted) as utilized more]

No problem in gaining a good number of skills if learning by doing. Actually do more, gain more

No matter how you want the skills, everything should be portet in the game world by learning from other NPCs or by doing. What I want is to remove the stupid skill menu. It’s not a KCD problem, but a general problem of 99 % of all RPGs and I always hate skill menus, because that’s not professional game design.

Is that so? Have you never learned anything by yourself by practicing a lot and realizing your mistakes? I really can’t think of a way someone could teach me to fit my attire for a better load distribution (well fitted perk) or heal my wounds without resting (revenant perk).

The skill menu is only there to track your progress, and make some minor choices (you really don’t need a teacher to decide whether you want to focus on shortsword or longsword combat).

Don’t think it tracks as much as it rewards. Have no issue with that except the game rewards for things that haven’t been done yet. The selection of combos come to mind

The specialization should be the player’s decision. Doesn’t mean one cannot learn a technique (skill) by oneself. Just means that it would be more meaningful (less super hero/chosen one feel to the game) if skills involved more interactions as martial skills have a long history of involving teaching, mentoring, etc.

You’re relating to spending half a decade at a fencing school. KCD takes place within one summer.

Don’t need a full on fencing school or military academy.

Vanyek. Ok but lost opportunity. Sir Bernard. Already foundational. Augment the interactions and you’re there. Throw in combat veteran in Pribyslavitz (if you pick guards instead of stable) along with some situational combat scenarios and you’ve nailed it

You’re basically saying that the way you can already play should be made mandatory.

How about waiting a week until the tailor patches your torn hose and the armorer finds a while to hammer straight your bent breastplate? That would be pretty organic as well. There are certain corners we cut to make the game playable

No, if you want to develop a new basic skill, you have someone (expert) show you. You try it. Pass some level of proficiency. That enables a basal level of that skill in combat outside the ring. At first you don’t realize full attack potential of skill. That comes from using it in situ (ie learning by doing). The more you use, the better you become (at least in theory; game mechanic uses skill XP acquisition to progressively improve the damage inflicted and/or chance of successful attack). Eventually you gain expertise (eg 90%) and then full attack potential (100%). For skills that build on each other, gaining expertise enables/potentiates the accessibility of new skills [eg short sword jab 90% and slash 90% enables (training on) combo that uses jab-slash]

One could argue one doesn’t need an expert to jab or slash with a short sword. True. The benefit to martial training is technique and efficiency. By focusing on technique (or at least the illusion of it — as you mentioned, one summer), you learn better and faster. iow, a boost gained by you relative to grinding without any training

One of my KCD dislikes is the riffraff bandits are vulnerable not so much by inferior technique as thin clothing

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What the hell is going on here? I have a good suggestion to make the next game better and instead you like it you post only some bullshit against it. Because of you we don’t get any better games. Play Witcher 3 or Skyrim there you have a skill menu, very innovative. You don’t even know what a really good game is.

Either doesn’t get the point (can’t see difference between waiting for someone to finish a job and skill development) or wants it easy (doesn’t want to spend time finding someone who can help you develop)

As I assumed you don’t know of what I’m talking about. So you can’t comment to this. The problem is that almost any RPG has a skill menu so that it become a normal standard and people don’t see the problem here, but people don’t know what really great games are.

A professional game developer does not use skill menus and other generic things such as tutorials, info/quest message pop-ups and HUD.

There isn’t a reply back marker/quote and my tag isn’t present. Are you talking to me?

Please don’t refer to Gothic and professionalism in the same line of reasoning. Also Gothic had a skill menu, albeit it was passive. In Gothic you’d have to kill X enemies in either way to earn Y exp and spend it on increasing any skill with the help of a teacher (kill Z molerats to learn lockpicking). Organic and seamless. Stunning and brave.