GOTY lists a joke


#61

yo, even today , with a fresh install and with all the updates my random encounters STILL DONT WORK … all i can do is find bandits. That is some shit… now in all 2 play through in red dead 2 i seen 2 bugs JUST TWO and they didnt effect my game play what so ever. . Also red dead 2 has some of the very best random encounters i have ever experienced.


#62

Yeah, hated having to use the game assigned sniper rifle during final battle in Van Horn. That and the other forcing was plain stupid. But, then again, in some instances it likely prevented some of the issues KCD had with select broken missions and mission tracking: Erik stuck outside Sasau monastery, the rescued girlfriend from Skalitz mining hut that you don’t get credit for saving, monks that respond inappropriately to you after you sneak back into monastery after running away, etc

The funneling or railroading as you call it is annoying, but it can be tolerated up to a certain level (to maintain narrative integrity, etc). They’re like taxes. Hate them but price you pay.

Funneling/railroading is a negative (ie things that I don’t want). What I like to focus on more in product quality improvement is the positives (ie things that I want). From RPGs, I want different outcomes (material ones that impact NPC world) based on your decisions/actions earlier in the game. I’ve read Gothic 1/2 had this. FO NV had it.

WH may have had to cut KCD dev short for the reasons you mentioned. That further strengthens the impression of KCD not being complete. Again, not sniping at WH; gotta pay bills. Just hope next time the full product (one that includes both opportunity costs, downstream impacts and the missed Kickstarter targets) can be implemented but without the Bannerlord never ending wait time

And yet, the numbers don’t match up. Those that fought and died during initial battle (in which Radzig got caught), then one NPC on guard (shoot him and none evident… stupid Talmberg archers sneak around and then fire at non-existent Toth merc NPCs in the castle), and finally a large number again during the final conflict


#63

Yeah, hated having to use the game assigned sniper rifle during final battle in Van Horn. That and the other forcing was plain stupid. But, then again, in some instances it likely prevented some of the issues KCD had with select broken missions and mission tracking: Erik stuck outside Sasau monastery, the rescued girlfriend from Skalitz mining hut that you don’t get credit for saving, monks that respond inappropriately to you after you sneak back into monastery after running away, etc

Sure, but KC:D has a lot of options for completing quests, and while this adds in a great deal of complexity, and therefore the possibility of bugs, it leads to a richer environment and the possibility to come up with solutions that aren’t gained by just looking at your mission log and going to the next mission pointer. NPCs move during your quests on their own, and you can exploit this.

For example, I found the bandits hunting Reeky in town, just drinking some beer, chatting about how to find him. Pretty good at stealth, I killed them both in broad daylight, thus ending the possibility that they might endanger his life. You could also follow them, and kill them when they reach the cave, or (now I’m curious), follow them to see where they go after they attack Reeky.

There’s also multiple solutions to a mission, so that if you fail one segment, the game doesn’t throw you to a reload screen like RDR2 does. Screw up with Father Godwin, and he doesn’t want to talk to you about Reeky? Well, in that case you can go to Rattay and search records for known associates of Limpy Lubosh. The interesting thing is that if you do this, you know precisely who Pious is, because his other alias is in the records. When you get to the monastery, you have your target - as long as you remember the names.

A number of quests are like this. You can solve them, in many cases, easier than the guided marker method by actually thinking about what people say, and the situation. At Neuhof, they tell you that Ginger ran off to see his charcoal burner friends. He mentions that there are charcoal burners to the South along the river, but that Ginger ran to the North. Quest marker leads you to the South to the nearest burners - but you can go straight up to the burners to the North and avoid being sidetracked.

Similarly, if you listen to the dialogue in the monastery-quarry quest, and analyze the situation, you’ll realize that there’s suspicious holes in peoples stories, and one guy who you would naturally suspect for planting the devils skull mysteriously vanished. One verbal clue could lead you to believe he’s hiding at the mill out back, and sure enough - if you search the mill, you’ll find him hiding there. If you question him, you solve the mystery.

Have a horse while hunting with Sir Hans? Expect a somewhat different mission.

There’s a lot of clever stuff like this thrown into the game, and it makes the world feel alive. But, yes, it can lead to bugs. What if a guy gets stuck in his pathing in the forest? Well, that can happen - often due to player choices affecting the game world and the mission. It explains why some people have these “game-breaking” bugs, and others don’t. It takes a lot of bug-testing resources to resolve such issues before a launch. Warhorse did reasonably well in this regard, seeing what a challenge it can be.

Funneling/railroading is a negative (ie things that I don’t want). What I like to focus on more in product quality improvement is the positives (ie things that I want). From RPGs, I want different outcomes (material ones that impact NPC world) based on your decisions/actions earlier in the game. I’ve read Gothic 1/2 had this. FO NV had it.

Yep, and I appreciate this as well. All the Fallouts had various ways to affect the world, but New Vegas and (much to the consternation of some) Fallout 4 were the best in this regard. It was due to non-linear storytelling, and being able to choose different factions to team with. This type of game, however, can be extraordinarily complex to create, and very buggy.

FO4 attempted to reduce the complexity by making a voiced protagonist and reducing you to a couple choices per quest npc. Your choices were almost always limited to some variation of yes, no, or troll. Instead of two main factions like New Vegas (though there was plausibly a 3rd), you had the Minutemen, the Brotherhood, the Railroad, and the Institute. Each of these arcs had their own linear story, but you could also play them off each other and eventually side with one, or engineer truces with all the factions after you’ve blown up the institute. This was a monumental task. Can you imagine the bugs they had to work with?

This is why I think FO4 was one of the strongest in the franchise. Despite some of its flaws, it allowed you to affect the world and story well and beyond what any of the other games had done. Choices and actions mattered. If only it hadn’t added in magic weapons and took a step towards borderlands, it would be my favorite of the series. If they had kept in the standard NPC dialogue, it would have been by far the best - but this would have been simply to complex to contend with on even Bethesda budgets.

But, second best to non-linear gameplay is linear storytelling with multi-varied solutions in an open world. That’s what KC:D delivers, and generally does it very well. Perhaps when Warhorse gets better funding, they can pull off non-linear games. Not many companies can really do that at this juncture. It takes a lot of talent, which can be expensive, and a lot of time. The two can blow a budget quite quickly.


#64

much enjoy WH’s approach to provide for a richer environment but the environment isn’t truly richer if KCD is polluted with post-completion artifacts (eg Teresa and Henry’s absurd post-coital conversation options, or the monks that show no surprise or dismay at Henry’s return - awol and suspicion of murder should elicit a very different reaction) and anomalies (eg Ulrich charging off to battle in his undies, or Pribyslavitz having no means to bathe or mend clothes). leaving such things makes KCD look noticeably incomplete and invokes an attendant feeling of being underwhelmed.

in my mind, if a game is left in such a state it has rating ceiling of 8 out of 10… unless something amazing is present to offset it. KCD would have that offset if it weren’t for the magnetism effect in melee combat

WH has seemingly decided to leave some of the aforementioned as is. Can’t wait for bastards but a part of me would really rather have WH clean up the post-completion artifacts and anomalies instead


#65

You jsut mentioned many games, that i personally did not like… except for risen and Elex, but elex also was a buggy piece…


#66

RDR2 is just boring to me. It felt so unimmersive and I hate the wild west theme, really tried to overcome it but didnt work.

If Rockstar didnt make it im sure it’d be getting 7 and 8’s by the gaming media. Money talks


#67

Skyrim is about 7 years old now. Still has more bugs than KCD in the beginning


#68

Was able to play Skyrim without waiting for a patch to fix MQ. Had to wait well over month for patch to fix Erik being stuck outside Sasau monastery.

Would and will replay KCD; wouldn’t and won’t replay Skyrim


#69

Yeaaaah. Maaaybe there were some game breaking bugs in KCD at the beginning. But do realise that Bethesda had about 2000 people working on skyrim whereas WH 120 people


#70

At best, that provides understanding and context to effort. At worst, it’s an excuse to rationalize poor quality by small vendors.

The product and its quality are what they are. Company size can potentiate but not assure quality. Some of history’s shittiest products have been produced by some of the world’s largest companies (Beth - FO76).

WH has had poor change management. Fortunately, WH is getting better. Beyond that, for a game with some instrinsic appeal, bugs aren’t a primary driver. At a personal level, I’d take KCD over Skyrim without hesitation even though I suffered a more disruptive bug, suffered vastly more performance issues, and have no hope of ever having console mods. At an industry level, Steam numbers for Skyrim bear this out too. People play it years after the release in spite of its bugginess.