Henry is a Nobleman and here's why

(Contains spoilers for the KCD Epilogue)
Henry Kobyla is a Nobleman. As we all know, towards the end of the game; Sir Istvan Toth informs Henry of his real Father - Sir Radzig Kobyla.

This means that Henry is the illegitimate Noble son of Radzig. Illegitimate meaning born before marriage, therefore he is known as a bastard.

However, Henry is acknowledged and accepted by Radzig Kobyla as his Son, therefore, since Henry is the only Son of Sir Radzig Kobyla, makes Henry legitimate because there are no other heirs.

Also, during the siege of Talmberg when talking to the quartermaster, he will say:
“I see how it is, the young lordling is just checking on us.”
This means that Henry is publicly recognized as a Nobleman, the Son of Sir Radzig Kobyla.

Furthermore, towards the end of the game, Sir Hans Capon says to Henry:
“It’s much better for me, a Nobleman to befriend a Noble Bastard rather than a blacksmith’s boy.”
This clearly shows that Henry is recognized by the other Nobles as a Nobleman too.

Now, when Janek asks Henry how to be adressed and Henry says:
“Oh, come off it do I look like a Lord to you?” Is a joke. Besides, Henry clearly doesn’t want his friends to call him Sir, but rather the public. Also for example, Sir Hanush and Sir Radzig are friends and they only adress eachother without saying “Sir” occasionally.

There are many other examples but I wanted to make this post to re-enforce the fact that Henry is a Nobleman now and in future DLC’s such as The Amorous Adventures of Bold Sir Hans Capon, Henry should he adressed as being a Nobleman.
By the way everyone, this is my first post! :slight_smile:

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Wouldn’t this depend how far a player is in the main story?

Yes, I stated at the beginning of this thread that he is recognized as a Nobleman after Sir Radzig Kobyla accepts Henry as his legitimate.

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but he have not done so publicly… (yet)

Yes he has. During the meeting with Jobst and the other Nobles at the end of the game Henry enters the room with Sir Hans Capon and Sir Radzig says “This is my son Henry.” And he says it multiple times throughout the game too.

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still don’t change the fact that for Henry to be recognized legally as is son, there are legal steps to go true.
It is very likely that the king need to agree to it.

This is really no different than a number of other issues mentioned during the game
Like how Capon complains that he can’t take over his land, without the king saying it is ok.

Yes but since Henry is the only son of Radzig it automatically makes him the legitimate son of Radzig. Also, Radzig already publicly announced Henry as his son.

Also, Hans Capon says to Henry “So, how’s life as a Highborn bastard?” And Henry replies “I am getting used to it.” So Hans also openly accepts Henry’s nobility.

Furthermore, when Radzig and Henry are talking, Henry says “I never felt like I belonged there” (meaning in the village house at Skalitz.) Meaning Henry felt as if he must’ve been in the Castle.
Then Radzig replies “It was in your blood I suppose.” And Henry smiles.

You could not be more wrong.
I get the feeling that you really don’t know much about medieval society.

To be a legitimate son, he would have to be born by Radzigs legally and Church recognized wife.

And since that is not the case. Radzig need the crown to officially and legally recognize the relation.
And since there is currently a civil war going on, that can’t have happened.
Just like Capon can’t take over his lands atm because the crown need to approve of it.

And it is all about land, money and politics.
Who get Radzigs land and money when he die?

As long as he have no legitimate son it will all go back to his lord.

So if the King like Radzig, then he would allow henry to be recognized. And if he do not like Radzig, he will not.
But Radzig is not rich, but lower nobility and Skallitz is just his “posting”… something that will not be inherited anyway. so not really that important.

The other Local lords will properly treat henry as one of them… They are friends with Radzig and they like henry.
so locally he will likely be considered noble. But for it to be law, the crown still need to approve of it.

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My friend, I have studied medieval society.
In those times, if an illegitimate son was born to a noble and he had no siblings at all, he would automiatically become the legitimate if the father acknowledged them.

While Henry is not a Knight because he would need to be Knighted by the King, he is still a Noble.

Obviously you have not studied it to any great detail.

In a structured society like the one in Bohemia Relgion, law and tradition mattered.
This is not the darkages of monty python.

Iam not going to waste any more time trying to get you to understand basic medieval thinking.

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I thought end game Lord Cappon reference Henry as a bastard rather than a turnip picker, which Henry quips i was a blacksmiths son not a turnip picker.

One thing is clear: Radzig Kobyla should die soon. That would mean nice starting money and some minor estates for a nice rpg/strategy game, something like Crusader Kings in FPV :wink:

I am sorry that you feel that way.
However, if you had a basic understanding of how these things worked in Medieval Society you would clearly figure it out that Henry is considered a Noble but he is not Knighted yet. It’s not that hard of a concept to understand, you can read about it in almost evey Historical textbook available.

Henry is in the same position as Cappon, can’t come of age without the king, can’t be legitimized without the King.

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When specifically end game did this happen?

Hans says “Not that long ago you were digging turnips, now look at us, two veterans!” And Henry says “Uh, I was an apprentice Blacksmith, not a turnip digger.”

Henry is a illegitimate noble bastard. The way things work in medieval society is that since Henry is the only son ( however illegitimate ) he would be entitled to Radzig’s estates. This does not mean he is legitimate. This means he is the closest relitive to Radzig. This means that if Radzig had a brother, and/or nephews, there could be a dispute over the rights of Radzig’s estates. Heirdom in the feudal system was not always as black and white as you think it is ( Hanush and Hans capon? The conversation with nightingale? ). So in the end, unless a high ranking clergy member or the pope himself deemed Henry legitimate, he isn’t technically a legitimate nobleman. He is what Hans called him, a noble bastard. The word “ bastard “ changes his social ranking and what rights and responsibilities he has.

Depends upon regional laws, really, as to whether or not he could be legally recognized. In some places in Europe, bastards were completely banned by Church decree. In others, laws were on the books. In the majority of areas, it largely fell to the sovereign of the land to judge that inheritance arbitrarily.

From what I can determine, Radzig was a Ritter (Knight) of the HRE. This would entitle him to a fief in Imperial lands, and that would ordinarily be heritable. Unfortunately, both the title of King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor are in dispute, and Radzig very well may have already lost his lands by this point for remaining loyal to Wenceslaus. All we really know is that he was serving as Burgrave (governor) of Skalitz, and was the Kings Hetman (commander of the armed forces of Bohemia). Both were noteworthy stations - the latter of which was ranked as a Count. Neither of these titles are heritable, of course. So, Henry might not have much inheritance, beyond some clothes.

None of that stops Henry from becoming nobility in his own right. Being knighted after his actions for the crown in this campaign would be quite appropriate. Most men did far less for that honor.

Hey ya’ll. Old post, but I just finished the latest DLC and was wondering about Henry’s position in the Bohemian society.

From what I can understand of the condition of Sir Radzig Kobyla’s service to King Wenceslas, he was a Yeoman and then Hetman to the crown. As such he was raised from the commons to the Minsteralis class (which is a Knight in service directly to the King, and not in Leige to any lord.)

This class was fairly unique in medieval times and formed as a response to the Nobility’s increasing power and ability to field men-at-arms and subservient Knights. Thus the Emperor (King) would raise serfs from their class due to their ability and entitle them as Knights (and rarely to higher positions as required). They were not entitled to the same legal status as the nobility, yet were close enough to them that in social terms (especially for small country lords) it was occaisonally of benefit to treat them as nobility due to their proximity to the Royal house.

Thus Sir Radzig is a commoner with a Ministeralis rank of Knight and Lord of Skalitz, he is not a Noble, yet also not of the Commons.

As Henry is his Illigitimate son, and has proven himself time-and-again, it is very likely that the Nobility have recognized the favor with which Sir Radzig views Henry and are thus amenable to treating him with a greater degree of respect than his non-noble and bastard rank entiail.

Effectively Henry is able to progress somewhat up the social ladder as a result of this, but any improvement of his rank would be entirely dependent on the actions of Sir Radzig.

While Henry is ostensibly in service to Sir Divish as well, this term of service is only for five years, and could be voided if Henry’s Leige and Father (Radzig) requires his services.

TL:DR. Henry is not a noble, nor could he become so. He could however become a legitimate heir to Sir Radzig’s title and property if he was formally recognized by Sir Radzig and the Bishophric (On behalf of the Cardinal, King or Pope).

His current status is that of a highly skilled bastard of a Highly ranked Ministeralis. Not a Noble.

Edit: He does however have access to a pathway into the Ministeralis class as the title was heritable. This class seemingly entitled the individual within it to certain priviliges and rights usual to the nobility, yet not to the League of Lords or any voting rights. There are also some discussions about the extent of influence the rank held, with notable ministeralis being (as is the case with Radzig) apparently ennobled by the Crown at a later date, both with land grants and through political titles such as the Burgrave of Vyšehrad (a contemporarily recently restored Palatial Castle on the then outskirts of Prague).

While I’m not sure of the position he held at Skalitz, when in his role as Hetman, he would have been referred to as “Lord Radzig” (non-heritable title), and potentially as Lord Radzig of Skalitz while he held tenure over the land there on behalf of the king.

Despite that, it was not a permanent elevation nor an ennoblement of his position, rather an indication of his value to the king and the command he held that allowed him the respect of a Lord.

Apparently this is all extremely complicated, as is shown by the position of Sir Hanush holding Rattay in supremacy over Lord Capon. In simple terms this would be a social faux-pas, having a mere knight above a Landed Noble, however due to familial politics and legal rulings, this was actually not too uncommon, as Nobility was based first upon the material power of the noble, and then upon their proximity to the throne (or leige), only after this was it based upon the “Rank” of nobility (however it was often the case that the titles were stripped from one noble and given to another when practical considerations like who has more swords was taken into account).

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