Homosexuality In The Game/Time Period

Off-topic
#61

Hello.

I understand your point of view and I have no problem with gays relationship in any game (or real life), although in this game will dificult for the story specially (sorry for you, seriously). But it could be included outside of the main character, for example a noble gay that carries his sexual preferences covert by the taboo in middle age… even so I don’t think that’s important for the game, same that hetero relationships

There is a saying “not ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity” (in this case I refer that “not ascribe to homophobia what can be explained by liking”). Many people don’t bother to moderate their language when speaking about homosexual relationships and gay people can bother for the rudeness. But I’m sure most of them aren’t as opposed as you think they are. You should understand that some/many hetero would see the gay sexual things like a very fat woman with thong marking her meats, something unpleasant to them (it’s an example) but this don’t mean that they are retrograde, just about what everyone likes and what not and any option is respectable.

I understand that you’re bored of heterosexual relationships but that’s the world where we live, the normal things are established by majority. The tyranny of the majority :smile:

Regards

#62

Don’t feel sorry for me. Like every backer here I want to see this game be great. Being great in my opinion means not leaving things out because they’re unpopular. This topic was created not to demand or force the hands of the devs to include something that is out of place. Nor did I want this to become a political discussion. It is widely known that during the medieval period (as well as many others) homosexuality is tabooed, however we know this doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. What this conversation is supposed to be about is how did it exist what did it look like from a gay man’s perspective. If you were to put yourself in the historical and geographical time period in a gay NPC’s shoes how would that aspect of your life play out. Most people including homosexuals seek to find companionship I’m deeply curious how one did. I would hate to believe that no man could find love in that time period. However the truth plays out though I would like to see it in the game. Which there are several good non-relationship ways to include it. I think the highest reason for blackmail or simply to better define your character. turn him over to be persecuted let him go flirt or blackmail. There is much that can be done.

1 Like
#63

I don’t like public heterosexual or homosexual displays of affection in any way. I don’t like love scenes in movies - annoying as hell!

I think the things a married couple or boyfriend/girlfriend do with or to each other sexually or affectionately should stay private.

If everyone followed this rule, no side of the fence would have to see the other doing things that made them feel uncomfortable - whether homophobia or heterophobia is or isn’t concerned.

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#64

Scheint ein “wichtiges” Thema zu sein aber wir sprechen ja hier über die Ausgestaltung eines Spieles.Homosexualität ist einerseits eine sehr individuelle Neigung, andererseits egoistisch im gesellschaftlichen Sinne , denke ich (das ist jetzt keine Wertung) Möglicherweise stellt es sogar die Spitze der Evolution dar, weshalb es auch im Mittelalter gesellschaftlich und auch in der Gegenwart noch vom Klerus geächtet war/ist. Konsequent homosexuelle Verbindungen sind nicht (mehr) in der Lage, sich genetisch zu reproduzieren. In einer Gesellschaft, in der Nachkommen für das Überleben unverzichtbar sind, ist Homosexualität also kontraproduktiv. “Seid fruchtbar und mehret euch” funktioniert nicht.In einem Spiel beinflußt Homosexualität bestenfalls das eigene Spielverhalten, also den Umgang mit den vorhandenen Spielelementen. Homosexuelle haben ja nicht 3 Beine oder 2 Köpfe, es sind identische Menschen mit einer innerlichen, differenzierten Einstellung in der Beziehung zum gleichen Geschlecht.Ein NPC könnte darauf eingehen, oder auch nicht, den Spielstrang würde das kaum beeinflussen. Unter konsequent mittelalterlichen Bedingungen wird es, bei Bekanntwerden, eher zur Verkürzung des Lebens führen. - leider reicht mein Englisch nicht für komplexe Inhalte, sorry -

Seems to be an “important " issue but we are talking here about the design of a game .Homosexuality is both a very individual inclination , on the other hand selfish in the social sense , I think (which is now no rating ) Perhaps it even constitutes the peak of evolution , which is why it was socially and also in the presence of even outlawed in the Middle Ages the clergy / is . Consistently homosexual liaisons are not (no longer ) able to reproduce itself genetically . In a society in which offspring are indispensable for survival, homosexuality is so counterproductive. " Be fruitful and multiply” does not work.In a game homosexuality influenced at best their own gambling behavior , so how to deal with the existing game elements. Homosexuals do not have three legs or two heads , they are identical people with an inward , differentiated adjustment in relation to the same sex .An NPC could go into it , or not, the game would hardly affect strand . Under consistently medieval conditions, it is , if disclosed, could , more likely to lead to the shortening of life. - Unfortunately my English is not enough for complex content , s

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#65

It’s not all as bad as most people make it out to be. Something to bear in mind - the Inquisition averaged about 5 executions per year, according to work done by more recent scholars. Historically, the role of the Inquisition was played up by Protestants who were criticizing Catholicism.

That being said, communities were much more intimate in the medieval age. If someone was living in sin, it was something that would usually be found out pretty quickly. But that doesn’t mean that, if you were gay and ‘found out’, you’d instantly be rounded up by a mob of angry peasants with torches and pitchforks. It’s more likely you’d be looked at with distrust. One of the odd things is that peasants with abnormal traits were pretty much ignored. If you were a Priest or a Lord, however, you were put to a much higher level of scrutiny.

It may be interesting to have in game, but the key thing - if we’re going for accuracy, which I assume - is that it’s very rare, and even then usually kept quiet. But, unless we’re going to have a game where players can have sex and have kids (which doesn’t seem to be the case), then it hardly seems worth it. I mean if sexuality is pretty much not going to have a role, why should homosexuality have a specific role?

To be clear, medieval men didn’t see homosexuality remotely like men do today. Homosexuality today is considered an integral part of who a person is, whereas in the medieval ages it wasn’t.

1 Like
#66

This is more or less my sentiment as well. If sexuality/homosexuality was going to come into the game I would expect it to come in later Acts. I think Act I should focus on core gameplay and setting the groundwork of the story while creating an open world that’s fun to explore and learn all of the new mechanics while doing so.

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#67

^_-

dude, chill. He said no one cares about your sexuality - he didn’t say “your homosexuality.”

Personally I find that in some games sexuality has a real place (like Crusader Kings - it’s about making a dynasty, so…), but in other games it really doesn’t need to be there. Like in the Witcher - it’s a cut scene for a guy to bang a girl when she will have no more role in the story. I don’t know, maybe that’s “closure”, but I don’t think it’s really necessary.

#68

Core gameplay are dialogs.

Dialogs are heavily influenced by (dis)likes and to whom you can imagine to fell in love with. The kissing/sex part is only a fraction of the meaning of sexuality.

It’s most about human communication. So sexual preferences should be reflected in a role playing game. It’s not about sexual intercourse or love scenes at all.

3 Likes
#69

I’m sure that if Warhorse puts homosexuality into the story of a quest it will be done right.

That said, I’d rather have the game focus on other aspects of the setting and period, than the sexual preferences of your character. I kind of feel that RPGs these days tend to feel like the HAVE to have some sort of romantic sub-plot ;homosexual or straight not withstanding.

This game is going to be great for sure, let’s focus on whats going to make it great. In my opinion, apart from the awesome game mechanics, its the story of a kingdom in civil war and the accuracy of the portrayal of that. I respect the right to ones sexuality, but is it really necessary to inject that into this game?

1 Like
#70

As necessary as animals are in the game. As necessary as npcs that have husbands and wives in the game. It’s not that in and of itself it makes or breaks a game, but like nudity the absence of it isn’t necessary. Also the inclusion of it can add to the flavor of the game.

2 Likes
#71

So, no use of excrement as bioweapon to decimate a village? (btw, will we be able to destroy another village)

#73

Medieval? This game need any zoofil peasant.

#74

Fundamentally one has to ask does this game even need homosexuality? People of that persuasion are of a minority and that sort of behavior is typically of no interest to the majority of the population, many areas of whom are even apposed and view it’s constant presentation to be propaganda. Believe it or not it is clear that Homosexuality is not generally favored today and it certainly was severely punished in the day, so why have it in the game? Especially a game funded by people who particularly as myself have no inclination to validate someones lifestyle choices or genetic predispositions.

To simply include it to say hey we are being modern is simply contemptible. To include it to attempt to make a point meaningless as the message is always accept people for how they are unless you don’t like this then no freedom of speech and we will not accept you.

Hypothetically, if it were included what point would it make? How would it add to the story? Why should it be in the story? It just couldn’t add very much to the story and they shouldn’t have to shoehorn in material to appeals a minority or so that hypocrites can strut around feeling morally smug about themselves.

#75

In Zürich maybe 45 people where burned for “sodomy” between 1400 and 1500 (and only 20 “witches”). That was a big city and I think citys in KCD will be much smaller, but yes, it would have been possible and I think it would be historically accurate to have it in the game …

But: Most of the punished sodomy was zoophilia. So if we talk about “historically accurate”, then warhorse has to implement zoophilia first.

4 Likes
#76

I am not a fan of making the main character too flexible. Because then for most of the game the character is a bland template that must never contradict any of these many customization options. Shepard is the best example, easily one of the weakest characters in that series.

#77

I would hate to be wrong at you, but isnt this your case bro? :slight_smile:


From my point of view, I just do not need a perspective of “gay man living in medieval time” in this game. I bet there are more important issues. But its just my opinion.

7 Likes
#78

Please don’t add today’s tolerances to a time period where peasants were simply the workforce of the monarchy.

Everyone needs to look back on this time period and realize that there was no romanticized notion for the peasants and common folk, they did what they wanted to between themselves. However Religion was a HUGE HUGE HUGE role among the commoners and to even threaten to break the teachings of the church would lead to immediate damnation of the soul. These people were educated only to the point of being able to master their work. The thinking of a higher ideology was left to the church and ruling families to “ponder” as that was their bestowed right.

Because of the extremely strict devout adherence to the church anyone openly homosexual was seen as being infested by a daemon and was “treated” or simply killed. The biggest reason for this was because population was a necessity. Anyone not laboring for their King and making babies was seen as a direct threat to the kingdom. How else are you to get soldiers?

If homosexuality were to be any part to this game, historically accurate, it would be of Thugs raping a child or of the Ruling Family enjoying “chivalrous” acts of “love”.

Today’s notion of homosexuality just didn’t exist and thus shouldn’t even be portrayed for an RPG based on sword-play.

#79

I can’t follow your argument here. The topic of homosexuality was clearly present in that time. Contemporary writers discuss it and we see large scale prosecution like for example:

Just a sampling: “1432 – In Florence the first organization specifically intended to prosecute sodomy is established, the “Night Officials”, which over the next 70 years arrest about 10,000 men and boys, succeeding in getting about 2,000 convicted, with most then paying fines.”

So to pretend that homosexuality did not exist or to equate it with pedophilia are certainly not historically accurate portrayals.

1 Like
#80

I hope this is not added to the game. This is not meant to disrespect anyone nor do I judge anyone for who they love.

But, if the game is to be kept historically accurate, than adding this aspect would certainly open the game up to accusations of homophobia or hatred.

Of course, our conclusions can only be drawn based on the history available. Unfortunately, homosexuality was treated as an evil that needed annihilation in these times. Perhaps not in every instance this is true, but generally speaking this was the norm. I know this as a student of world history.

So, for this reason, I hope to not see it added.

#81

Hey, I would not worry. This game should be modding friendly, so gay people chill out, there will be at least mod, if you are willing enough to do it. :smile: :sunny:
P.S.: The Warhorse is trying make realistic game, so homosexuality was considered, so I am sure, maybe you will be lucky.

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