Lances and horses

Have you been watching Disney much lately?

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I would just like to say that horses and lances are awesome.

I also want to use this opportunity to make the distinction between heavy and light lances.

This is the classic image of a knightly lance which is used couched under one arm.

These lances are, for all intends and purposes, a one use weapon. You hit a single guy with it and it will break the lance or impale the enemy. This fact should probably tell you that it is a rubbish weapon for an adventuring hedge knight type of guy. In military campaigns knights were often required to bring three of these lances with them, since you cannot fold them a few times and stick them in a magical bag of holding they often had wagons or squires to carry them.

In essence this heavy lance combined with armor made the knight heavy cavalry. Heavy cavalry by virtue of being heavy cavalry is most effective in set piece battles and not skirmishing or otherwise adventuring in the country side.

If we see this type of lance in-game it will either only appear on limited amount of occasions or it will be a magical self regenerating lance.

This here is the light lance.

it is essentially a spear carried on horseback. It could be couched like the tapestry above shows or used in a thrusting manner. As far as I am aware it is not a single use weapon but used to poke and thrust into enemies too. It was slightly shorter than the heavier lance and also lighter which makes it more practical to carry around all day. This lance being able to be used multiple times and from a standstill as thrusting implement makes it much more useful for an adventuring guy on a horse. If we are able to use lances on horseback during quests and such it will most certainly be this variant, which is in essence just a spear.

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either of those would be difficult to carry around under normal circumstances i think. there might be a war out and an encroaching army, but i can’t imagine henry walking or riding around the countrysides with either a lance or even a light lance(they’re typically longer than spears).

it seems to me, a lance or light lance could be given to henry at the start of a battle should he so choose to ride with the men at arms, or depending on how the story goes, even as a retinue or bodyguard of a knight. it’s not an impossible scenario.

based on the limited glimpse of the story, it seems henry, if he chooses the man of action path, could align his allegiances such that he could become something like a specialist/assassin/bodyguard for a nobleman. this would essentially give him the opportunity to have access to knight-level equipment in battles. but only in battles, imo. not while he’s off duty around the country side.

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Yeah, I imagine carrying a lance would be something like today carrying an anti-material rifle. Questions would arise, so to speak. :smiley: Carrying a staff, an axe, or so-so even a sword would be fine, but I think a heavy lance is far too clearly a weapon of war. You wouldn’t even pick it up, when you are going to investigate the arson at the stables.
As of Henry, in war, as an armored heavy cavalryman? I wouldn’t bet on it. At least, not in Act I. I wouldn’t mind though, I would rather have a limited selection of weapons, as far as they feel natural and fluid.
Anyways, I start to feel that combat will be the hardest thing to make in the game.

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I was thinking more of large scale battles because the trailer shows you riding with a group of horsemen. I will probably use a spear on horseback.

The light lance can be carried around by him quite easily provided he is on his horse. The way light and medium cavalry used to do this was with a lance cup mounted on the stirrup like this:

and in later times we see a leather strap around the shoulder which leaves your hands free.

it is out of the question that a normal person would go about with a lance such as this but I can imagine a guard on patrol ‘holstering’ a lance like this and travel for multiple days.

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Ummm… Do you know how commoners become nobles or lords or knights? By doing deeds during the war time that distinguish them from others. If they are brave on the battlefield and they do something heroic that changed the course of the battle, or killed important person then they would be knighted. Read some history and how it looked like.

Please give some examples that we can at least look up. I have never heard about this other then in Hollywood.

Commoners would not dare to kill anyone important on the battlefield. They would be unlikely to even engage directly against a noble. That is one of the reasons why Huns and Mongols were so successful - they didn’t give a damn who is killing whom, as long as the blood was flowing. The possibility of a common blacksmith getting directly to noble status may have happen in Disney stories, much less likely in real history.

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Ooh, it is really easy to become a lord. All you have to do is: be filthy rich, and then loan money for the crown. You will be a baron in no time! :smiley:

what do those modern inventions have to do with the medieval game?

Chateau Gaillard was an English castle in Normandy, and the King of France was determined to take it. A common soldier called Ralph was sent with a small group of men to find a way into the inner bailey. Ralph climbed up a garderobe (a toilet chute which emptied out above the base of the wall) and entered the castle chapel above. They then let their fellow soldiers into the central bailey, which was captured.

Ralph was knighted by the grateful French King in recognition of his brave (but smelly) exploit.

Another man who went from obscurity to knighthood was Guillaume Tirel, who started as a kitchen boy, became a chef, then a squire to a future King of France in the 14th century. When he was knighted, his coat of arms included three cooking pots in the centre of the shield as a tribute to his genius in the kitchen

More information

even more information

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I am pretty sure the main method of obtaining nobility was land ownership or straight up cash payments.

As for Knights and nobles I think we should make a distinction between being Knighted and being of nobility. Not every noble was a knight (a minority actually was in the later centuries of the middle ages) but every knight was a noble.

Commoners could be knighted before and after battle though like @MINTEEER says.

And these

Many of them were already noble when being knighted before battle but a few were commoners.

Another famous example.

Commoners being Knighted were rarer but possible. Since this is a video game it is certainly within the realm of possibilities.

Except the:
Swiss
Dutch
Flemish
Scots
French
Welsh
English
Irish

The Lance (shoulder) strap seems to have been introduced into Europe by the Avars and is mentioned in Maurice’s Strategikon (6th century AD.)

As for the lance bucket/cup you are right, I haven’t found anything pre 16th century on it yet but I am searching since I have a feeling the Mongols did use them during their conquests.

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That dude was havin heaps of fun

Actually it was common practice of time that soldiers would try to capture lords or king in hopes for ransom from enemy nation. Also looting dead lords and knights after battle made quite fortune to many soldiers. Back then poor man could easy leave for war with fork and come back with ringmail and quality sword.

You see the difference, right?

FYI, even if caught, he would be given over to own lord (surely not for free), but the ransoming would again be held between the houses of same standing.

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My point was that in battlefield it would be no different if you face nobility or footsoldier like you, cause nobility or no its kill or be killed. Cause that capturing part game in play only when battle has decided and one side is in retreat.

you’re still unlikely to meet nobles in battle. they’re not going to run in after the peasants, they’re going to wait till you’re softened up then ram right through you on horseback. the only opportunities which allow you to fight noble on an individual level would be if his army has been crushed and your ranks have gotten all the way past his various defense, by that time, their army would have routed and those nobles that couldn’t escape would be scrambling around on the ground, and you still wouldn’t be able to fight with them. you would have captured him and taken him to your lord.

which makes me think battles are going to be predetermined by history, since you are not one man army, you’re unlikely to have any effect on outcome of a battle, you are only going to experience it and survive.

In azincourt over 1000 nobles were prisoned and about twice or more died on battlefield. Lead from behind style wasn’t popular in middle ages.