My top 3 most annoying game-play things

Gameplay
#1

I am half way through the game and here is my feedback of my top 3 annoying issues in the game play if any dev still cares at this point:

I)
Getting semi-stuck in the widlerness at slopes and bushes or between objects and terrain: The protagonist should be able to “climb” and “pull himself up” small ridges and slopes. Sometimes it is just annoying to have to wander 100 meter to circumvent a small slope any child could climb, other times you need to reload the game, because you are just stuck in vegetation and cant see how you get out of there.

II)
AI using bows in melee: Standing in front of an enemy, that you pound with sword hits, while the AI of the enemy just stands still, and calmy aims at you with a bow, and even hits you perfectly. All the time being hit by slashes. Gameplay wise it sucks, because you should be able to surpress a bowman with hitting him in the face, so you dont take damage, and immersion wise it is just a total deal breaker. Feels more like diablo in that moment :stuck_out_tongue:

III)
Not being able to save normaly, but being able to go to a bed to sleep and save -> This is a redundant design.
There is a need for sleep already in the game. So your character HAS to sleep anyway. So adding save function to sleep is a doubling of the same game-play pattern. Futhermore, going back to a bed to save, and then going all the way back to continuiung whatever you were doing is tedious and not my definition of fun. Is is just pure meta gaming. That “save feature” should only be part of the hardcore mode. Also: I do not want to be an alchemist. Forcing a playstyle onto a game function seems weird.

#2

If you’re stuck, try jumping backwards, sneaking, luring any NPC towards you or slashing weapon if possible.
You’re not supposed to save often, only if you can afford it with savior schnapps or get to save location with dedicated bed.

#3

You can always get to a save location with a bed. It is just an annoying overhead. This savegame philosophy is outdated and for a reason. Old school design in some areas makes sense. But not about game-state or technical limitations. Only works if you make it survival hardcore. Current solution is a soft-block that actually does not help at all.
About schnapps: I do not want to become an alchemist, because of a metagaming feature.

#4

then buy it from bathhouses, inns, alchemy shops, traders. You can make enough money to keep it in supply.

#5

I agree with you, especially about the first idea. That would help me a lot. :slight_smile:

#6

Savior Schnapps is available in big numbers and you will not need it unless you play Hardcore mode.

#7

Agree that getting stuck in vegetation is annoying, but then saving and reloading is a minor issue for me.

I have not come across bowman getting a shot on me while slashing him, but then there are "bugs’ abound and stuff happens.

The save system, I actually like in the fact that the main character is not superman and we need to be cautious when you approach a fight we cannot win or at best the outcome is uncertain. Many will disagree with me but that is my opinion.

As with every game there are nit noy and quirks that we wish were corrected, perhaps the developers will fix them. I will wager they cannot fix a problem they cannot replicate and we are stuck with the getting stuck in the bushes.

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#8

I do hate it when there is a small twig off a branch the IRL you can bat away and go past but in the game stops you cold in that path causing you to not go thru spot in brush open but for the damn twig!

#9

We are stuck in the bushes because they are put into the world in such order they create gaps in between which are perfect for fitting player inside. But first of all, bushes are to create obstacles and players should go around them, I can understand that design. It is not a bug, it is feature.

#10

As others have already said (many, many times)- save games being restricted is one of the BEST features of the game.

My family (all play), and myself enjoy starting out a day (from bed), and setting off for an adventure.
We dont run back for an afternoon siesta…
We live a day; making choices that support survival in these hard times.
Bandits and random encounters have us scream/freak out. … like life the consequences of bad choices are impacting.
We have genuine care for our avatar.

Ever since quick save/load keys have existed in games the feeling of consequence has been a ‘non event’.

I’ve never cared for Geralt, or a Skyrim character (they have never been in any risk of losing their efforts).

Every day in the medieval world of KCD is a tale of survival.

Sure-my partner (new to 3D action games and controllers with multiple analogue inputs) gets killed in combat more often than my daughter or I… and loses her days’ sojourn more frequently- but we never diss this feature. (WE love it!)

The sense of accomplishment that ‘making it’ to the end of a whole day has (we do A LOT) is unmatched in most recent games.

Like completing a level in Ziggurat- you never know if you will… it makes each gameplay experience satisfying.

For the last five-six years, my other medieval walkig simulator (Skyrim), has been exclusively for checking out player mods (eg hogwarts).
Even my missus never had an issue with combat in Skyrim.
The only difficult combat in Skyrim was ONE overpowered vampire. … my four year old had troubles when she first took on a sabercat (with a level one character, and being new to 3D games),… even her two year old brother could play the game ‘in the wilderness’… but thise animals scared them and quick save/quick load sorted out that fear.

R18+ rating on Kingdom Come means more mature people can try a game meant for adults.
Like ‘old school’ games (designed for intelligent people who didnt need ‘instant gratification’) it doesnt hand hold (by design) and encourages users to experiment…
Something redoing the same day five times in a row generally reveals the true depth this title often allows.

The counter argument is that the quick save/quick load system could just be ignored by the users who do not want it… (that wouldnt play out the way some seem to think), would take away a lot of the gameplay feel that we have here.

My sense of urgency and care for my character is what really allows me to ‘feel the dirt’, and places me firmly in this virtualised world.

Given so few titles offer this nowadays… can we keep it? :wink:

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#11

when I read the topic I guessed that the save mechanics would be there I was right. not being able to save adds a risk element which makes the game harder and more immersive it has been mentioned hundred of times but the developer repeatedly said that they want that risk element there and it’s not gonna change.

you have a good point on the other two and I completely agree.

#12

Rating 18 isn’t for old school player or how intelligent people is it for. It’s simply put as for adults because of the worst things, you can do in game, eg kill people, there’s blood, curse words, use of drugs.

#13

Pretty sure you are taking liberty with my context.

No worries.
I have a better understanding of the age rating now.

And I was proud of the jigsaw puzzle I just completed- only took me two weeks (box said for 4-6 years)

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#14

You make some valid points and agree that the game does offer an “adventure” with every encounter.

#15

Getting “stuck” is not a bug, but a feature someone here said. Let me lol hard. Having worked in QA for 4 years, I don’t know any one tester that would consider being stuck a “feature” unless it is specifically designed to challenge you (as in, you need a rope to get out, or else you will die, like quicksand feature. Another example for a dedicated feature could be “death” when stuck, like getting squished.) But getting stuck in bushes and having to reload is NOT a feature. And since you might have no savegame close (because of the “super awesome save mechanic”) is just frustrating.

But to adress the “I love the savegame feature” people:
Sure, you can love it all you want. Does not change the fact that

I) There are better ways in modern game design to reach the same goal you want (tension, meaningfulness, consequences). Option A) is to put it into a hardcore extra setting at game start. This would allow different player types to personalize their challenge. Option B) is too allow saving always, but restrict zones where you are restricted from saving and traveling. In addition to that, the game should then communicate to the player, that he/she is about to enter a no save zone. This would also work well.

and
II) Doing it the way they did, is just a bad solution. Independent of design goals (be it tension, meaning or convenience)
A) It does not offer 100% non-save environment for tension and risk: Just take the hassle to find a bed = Overhead and backtracking = metegaming. Or you just “save and exit” and then re-start the game. What a non-sense.
B) Yet on the other side it does not offer 100% save freedom for the convenience (no rescue potion = no save). Reallife calls? Bad luck. Lost a fight, and couldnt save? Bad luck, re-do the last 1hour.
C) It does not offer distnction between player types.

All in all, anyway you look at it, it is inconsistent, and not thought through design. It takes the worst of both worlds. I am all for “this is a risk, are you sure?” moments. But the implementation here just sucks for a 2018 game. They should keep the “goal” of tension, risk and meaningfulness, but do it with proper in-game mechanics and danger zones, that are clearly communicated. Not with exploitung a technical aspect of software-states.

#16

:slight_smile: Funny, that saving problem. You just wrote one way of how to do it. You wrote much about it, but it still remains the same - just one possible way of how to do it. Warhorse decided to go for a different way, which achieves similar similar tension by different means. It has different properties than your save and non-save zones, but achieves similar results.

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#17

I wrote a player-centred more convenience way of doing it, that deals with an informed player. And I am sure, a good designer could break down the goals of the feature much better, and find an even better solution that does not require to abuse the software state and restricts the player’s RL freedom.
And I also explained, why the Warhorse solution does not offer similar tension, since you can STILL save with extreme inconvenience of exiting the game, or fast-traveling around the world. Sorry, the solution they picked is just bad. Nothing personal. But it takes more balls to realize that your feature is sub-par and admit it, and iterate it based on the new experience.

#18

I have just played after long time and saw people turning to me after I shot near them, I hit one of them, they ran a meter, stopped and ran towards me, stopped and noticed me maybe 20m away from me. I have maximum stealth, that could be it.
Enemies were not holding their weapons properly though, they were not moving. They held them properly later.
Some objects fully render only when I get close, after I go a little further, they get blurry and need to load again so I can not preload all world by walking through it, it is blurry in the distance. Better for performance, but it is the reason why there people without heads in Rattay.

#19

I too agree with having a sense of consequences.
But when I play for a couple of hours and then have a bug or the game crashes or some kind of horrible unfortunate event that isnt supposed to happen… Thats a couple of hours lost which turns into punishment… Not consequence.
However, this is what schnapps are for. And mods (cheats c: ).
I will note that for me most, if not all of the bugs are gone for me.

#20

Dreepa- you state a few examples that DO work well in other games.
Open world games with full freedom are sans a lot of the scripting that you suggest makes that sace style easy to implement.
Your ideas are standard/easy affair for many games, true, but would not shoe horn well into this title for - as you say it- for a range of players.
To save this coming around again (but described in finer detail as if I dont understand… (I do)) yes, on the main quest path it would be somewhat doable, but then leave players with clear understanding of when they are on main path and when they are not- which leads to same immersion break that telling players they are in a safe area would entail. (Any immersion breaks removed is a good thing)

Beds are safe.

Losing an hour? Maybe you dont enjoy slow paced games or the time spent in the hobby of gaming. (Ducks from all the objects thrown)

I agree pc crashing or game halt that costs time sucks- but ultimately that SHOULDNT be happening, so lets view the product in a light that it is intended for.

Given save and quit exploits and mods etc exist. . Many can have their cake and eat it too.
What this product seems to have missed then- is communicating its design ideas to the perspective customer base. (Not the products intention to be ‘for everyone’)
Something having guranteed sales (kickstarted) and an educated fanbase probably lulled Warhorse into missing the boat, they focused on the wants of the people who wanted it!

Having transients pick it up and play would have some giant #what the? statements being said, frequently over the first few hours I would imagine…
We probably need to clarify for whom these changes need be made and then quantify if that is the lionshare of this games salesbase.

Many have clearly stated they want this game to hold onto its identity and not homogenise to typical market release. (There are enough games out there for one to exist that caters to a different crowd, unless we are still arguing that this game could be made to have wider appeal?)

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