NPC routines are a waste of resources


#1

So do any other backers feel like warhorse studios wasted their money with the overly complicated NPC routines?

Most players don’t care to watch long enough to notice all the fine differences between the routines and a simple sleep / work / eat / relax routine with a handful of locations.
They got problems with the loading and saving. They got problems with sleeping / passing time. They got problems with fast traveling. The player got problems with finding NPCs. NPCs have trouble finding the places they are supposed to be at. All it does is cause problems while offering very little.

Basically all the routines are about 10% more impressive than they were in Gothic. But they bring 500%+ more work and trouble with them.
They are wasting all the backers money and the time that could have went into fixing other issues or adding more content. Instead they remove blacksmithing - clear sign that they wasted their resources elsewhere.
On a side not: but alchemy is in. It doesn’t make sense to have one kind of crafting in and but not the other.
All of that is anything but professional.


#2

I agree that saving, speeding up time for sleep and wait, and NPCs not getting lost or stuck is important. The public version is a year old, and nothing like what it will be at release.

I think alchemy and BS mini games are pointless fluff that add virtually nothing to the game.


#3

Well, the point was that the time and money is already wasted and it can’t be taken back and the release version will be less good because of that.


#4

I actually like the NPC cycles and think that is what will set this game apart from the others.
As for alchemy…people like to do different stuff. In the beta I was grinding the missions to get to the battle to see what it’s like, while my girlfriend liked to pick flowers and cook potions. If the game can deliver to many different people with different play styles it will just sell to more people and also it’ll make the game repayable, not just grind through once in 8 hours and you’re done with it.
I just hope they will not charge for DLCs that include the things that were promised but are left out for now.


#5

Centurion you seem to misunderstand.
The routines being in is a good thing. It’s just that they are too detailed, that they cause more work than they actually contribute. Not to mention all the trouble it caused the developers with loading and whatnot. All that makes them work on problems that wouldn’t even exist with a more simple version.
From an economical point of view, they are a huge waste of money.
From a gameplay point of view, less detailed routines would have been enough too.

So ultimately they wasted the money of the backers in an irresponsible way.
It’s like asking a company to build a house and they spend all of the budget on a marble floor, that gets wet, so they have to work on drying it again and then they have no more money for the roof, so they build a straw roof.


#6

Dude, just let’s see how it works out on the finished game. You are only speculating here.
Me coming from eastern europe I’ve seen lot more money (public taxpayers money) wasted on BS all the time.
This guy had a vision to make this game, and he made it the way he want it to be made.
They got the money for it on KS so no publisher is rushing them to release a half finished game.
If you think they wasted your money you can ask for a refund, if you didn’t pledge, I don’t know what you are complaining about.
You are also free to make your own game just the way you want it to be.


#7

It’s not speculating. It’s obvious for anyone that has eyes.

Having a vision is quite different from having the ability to make decisions. And the decision to keep the overly complicated routines even after all the trouble they caused translates into them not having the slightest clue about business and wasting the backers money.

You are free to wait and then get disappointed with the game at release. Though you probably won’t even be able to make the connection of why the game is missing so many features and how they wasted all their resources.
Meanwhile, everyone that dares to actually think about what is happening with their money and the game should do so here.


#8

You’re arguing taste. You don’t care about the additional detail, others do.

Simple routines are fine for people that don’t care, or don’t pay attention, but many of us here do care about things like this, as the game was basically sold on realism. Making the people that inhabit the world seem as close to real as possible is very important. Of course, that’s still taste, but I think you’d find a very large amount of people here would be upset if they were simple.


#9

It’s not a question of taste. Everyone would like more refined routines if they had the choice.
The routines in the game are just slightly more detailed than simple routines like they had in Gothic. Yet the amount of work to get that small increase in detail is much higher than the gain, plus it caused all kinds of trouble. So the devs made a bad choice in sticking with those routines, because it negatively effected the rest of the game.
Ever since the beta they didn’t say a thing about those issues - bet you they still haven’t fixed it and that is why there is no release date.


#10

Based on what? How do you know how much much work needed to go into it?

That’s just wild speculation, you’re treating this like the most complicated thing they could possibly have chosen to implement. As I said, what is this based on? Why on earth would “slightly more detail” somehow hold them up for such an insane amount of time?


#11

Based on the fact that the majority of players don’t play that conciously to notice all the details and obviously, as stated before, all the extra trouble they went through. You probably do, and I do, since we both spend time looking at this game before it’s even released. The average player doesn’t stop to watch them cook, eat, put their bowl away etc. - and even that doesn’t work properly and the NPCs often run around like headless chicken. Also now they are being awfully quite about any kind of detail about the game other than neutral things like actors. Suspicious.

That small amount of detail stopped them because it made the schedules so complicated that they weren’t able to do the saving/loading properly, they couldn’t do the sleeping, they couldn’t do the fast traveling, which are all major parts of the game being hindered by some extra that literally only adds slightly more detail most people never look at.

Most of all, that is the way projects run. If things don’t work and a year later the team still doesn’t get out a message on how they fixed they
issues, it’s absolutey certain they haven’t fixed a thing.


#12

No.

(10 char limit)


#13

Sorry to “the average player”, but I don’t care if for once a dev team wants to make something niche that they won’t appreciate. Catering solely to the average is how we get dime a dozen cash grabs, devs should make what they want, how they want. With as much detail as they want.

You just keep speculating. You have no way of knowing how long it stopped them, you’re just guessing. It was an issue waaay back, and you’re acting as if you know it’s still relevant.

Again, treating routines like the most complicated thing ever conceived of by man. Everything you’ve been saying relies on assumptions. “I assume this issue they had is still going on to this day. I assume if they fixed it they’d make a public announcement about it. I assume the additional detail couldn’t possibly be worth it, based on my assumption of how long it took them, and nothing else”. It’s pointless,


#14

Those things are already in the Beta… and they work just fine.[quote=“Cepheiden, post:11, topic:32429”]
The average player doesn’t stop to watch them cook, eat, put their bowl away etc.
[/quote]

This game isn’t really marketed at the average player. It’s main selling point as stated above is realism, and a fine attention to detail. I know I’m not the only one who spent hours studying all the little things in the Beta.

Hell i spent 5 minutes studying the heaps of shit that you find in the villages.


#15

My statement is based on the evidence presented and the way they have been acting lately. If anything, it is the most correct assumption you have ever witnessed. But it’s cool, since I see that you will rather just sit and wait for things to happen. Not like things will change anyway since the devs are too busy fighting all the SJWs on twitter - very professional and certainly a good indicator for a high quality game to come!

Warriant you are one of those players that doesn’t notice details, even if you look at things. Otherwise you would have noticed that sleeping takes forver because they can’t fast forward because of the detailed NPC cycles. Same for Auto Travel. Loading and Saving causes bugs. NPCs often run around in weird ways, so not even the cycles work properly.
Also, if the main selling point is realism they would have already failed. It’s maybe more realistic than other games but it’s by no means realistic, especially not the combat system which is just a poor compromise compared to what they were talking about in the first videos.


#16

As seen here:


#17

Your statement is based on the Beta, which is over a year old, and not a representation of what the completely product will be.

Ive been here for 3 years, i can handle a little more waiting.

Yes it is, it means we won’t see any pc bullshit.

Actually i do, i take great pleasure in studying all the small details in the Beta, but you’re clearly some omnipotent god who can see the future and knows how others play the game.

That’s not really a small detail, and I’m well aware of how long sleeping and waiting takes, i never considered it much of an issue considering a very detailed AI system is worth having long wait times. You might wanna tone down the condescending snark, people are a lot less inclined to hear you out when you act like a complete asshole.

Would you like to name a more realistic RPG? Or even a historical open world RPG?

Really? How so, since you have all this inside knowledge, tell us how they’ve comprised on the combat.


#18

So you have run out of arguments. It’s ok nobody likes to hear about why their favorite toy is bad. As expected of some random fanboi.


#19

Arguments? All you’ve done is claim to have evidence will making nothing but assumptions XD


#20

If you really thought deep down that I wasn’t right you wouldn’t even have bothered answering in the first place.
But what is more likely: An amateur company wasting money on pointless things or them somehow magically creating the next GOTY? Don’t bother answering it’s a rhetorical question.