NPC routines are a waste of resources


#21

You do realize that a lot of these devs have plenty of experience prior to being at Warhorse right?


#22

So you responding to me means you don’t believe that I’m wrong?◉_◉


#23

That’s why I wrote company.
Experience in programming, art, design etc. - yes, obviously.
Experience in running a company and doing business - no.

It’s called being polite, since I opened the thread, not like a literal shitposter would understand.


#24

You know this how?

So what you’re saying is you just want an echo chamber where people agree with the baseless shit you peddle?


#25

Various indicators, here is just 3 obvious ones:

  1. The lead designer having his own little social media war - highly unprofessional, hints to the lack of marketing experts.
  2. The PR dudes. Obviously very inexperienced with poor english skill and not very pleasant to listen too. Hired the wrong guy for the job.
  3. Communicating freely about failures such as the load/safe system implies this company regularly screws things up and has trouble solving problems or planning in a way that avoids them.

Also all I am saying is that I am very polite.


#26

Detailed and persistent NPC cycles have been improved by LODs, in the same manner that complex geometries are made possible with geometry and physics LOD.

This is also able to improve the slow sleep/wait state of the Beta while increasing the NPC count according to the hints given by WH in their recent posts/updates.

While there were issues with the save/load in the Beta (the first time the Save load feature was introduced in this title), this was reported as rewritten months ago for the internal build, alongside the reworking of the NPC code.

We see new stuff with every update shown, yet you and people like you constantly repeat the mantra that nothing has changed about anything in the game since the (roughly) 18 month old Beta code and assets were frozen for public release to the backers, and were visibly unfinished and inconsistent in application (there were at least three states of dialogue animation (none, partial hand animated and motion captured) and both spoken and unspoken dialogue lines. It is expected that some improvement might be seen here too.


#27

No doubt you’re a marketing expert. Shitting on sjws will help sales if anything.

Ive had many conversations with the PR manager through the forum, and his English is fine.

So transparency and admitting your faults is bad. Gotcha. Would you prefer they cover them up like some other game companies do, and leave them in the game?


#28

It’s great if they fixed it.
Still doesn’t change the fact that they must have wasted a lot of resources with an overly complicated system.

Warriant if a person who is supposed to work spends all his time in online flame-wars, the contents don’t matter, but simply the fact that he isn’t working on things and instead engages in such pointless activity.
‘Fine’ english doesn’t cut it for a PR job.
And yes, too much transparency is bad.


#29

If you think you can take it, check out his twitter account. There are pictures of him walking a dog, playing airsoft, eating lunch… all pointless activity :slight_smile: Instead of sitting in his office 24/7 labouring night and day, he wastes time with his private life :smiley:

yesterday he flew to Croatia for the Reboot develop conference :slight_smile:


#30

Today we learn that people don’t and shouldn’t work literally every hour of every day.

-_____-


#31

Can’t play the beta, so no telling how detailed the NPC schedules really are, but personally I hope they will be as life-like as technically feasible. In 1992, Ultima VII featured a set of 32 different NPC routines, that allowed a pretty good approximation of a living, breathing world. 25 years later, maybe we finally could do a little better than that? Just saying …

To iterate further on the topic, I am pretty much fed up with games that are reduced to the bare-bones, absolutely required game-play elements, with a streamlined experience that takes players from one quest-marker to the next, until it’s finally over. I want fluff in my RPGs! KC:D is one of the candidates where you see that it is a labour of love and dedication, not just a marketing-driven project where appeal to the masses is all that counts. And I applaud Warhorse for going the extra mile here or there instead of just aiming for okay-ish or good enough. If that means issues to overcome, and delays, and some bugs in the initial release, then I’ll gladly pay that price. The important bit is that it will eventually release, and I guess there’s little doubt about that.

So yeah! Bring on the NPC schedules!


#32

I’m very intrigued to see how the NPCs turn out.


#33

In my opinion NPCs and their routines is what makes this game so immersive.

If you are offended by how much effort they spent on it is because you don’t understand the vision of the game…
They didn’t want to make one more GTA or Witcher, etc… The idea was to make a game where the player would feel inside the story… Something like Mafia, the first one.


#34

Hey @Cepheiden …sounds like you don’t really want to be here. I mean, you’re disappointed with the game, it’s progress, development and capability, the studio as a whole, their marketing and public relations… the list seemingly goes on.

Dunno if you’re a backer or not. Doesn’t look like it… so why get your knickers in a not for? If you are a backer, then you’re clearly disgruntled and I suggest that you get a refund and leave all this ‘disappointment’ behind you.

Move on mate. And leave the many that actually want to be here, contributing to this community in positive ways, rather than tearing shreds off a new studio who are trying their darnedest to take it to the big boys and challenge industry standards.

I’m in no way trying to discourage constructive criticism, open feedback, dialogue and discussion. But you’re just yapping for the sake of it dude. It’s time to stop posting


#35

What lot of these “critics” doesn´t even realize, is that such complex, but very rewarding systems are not to be used only once… Once WH has this technology, it can be build upon and used in next games, even in different genres, hell if its really good it could probably even get licensed or smthing…

You simply need good foundation for everything that you do, and complex AI simulation of open world is something that you can use basically every time… while things like blacksmithing minigames and such are somewhat “one franchise only”

Also… I am working many hours every day already, so I am quite happy that in my games I don´t have to work again (fuck crafting) and can instead watch people work they ass off (AI routines!)
So yeah, thats win-win situation if I ever seen one :smiley:


#36

You know, whole process of creating a game is one long chain of screwing up things. And I will rather tell you that it’s broken then try to act like everything is ok.

But to a degree you are right. We are new company and we learn new things on every step we make. But that’s part of our “success”, isn’t it?
Because we are new and we are trying to do something new. And that takes time and many mistakes.


#37

So did you actually fix the saving / loading, sleeping, fast travel by now? Or is it just ‘improved’, i.e. still slow and buggy but just slightly less than before?


#38

From what we heard in tweets and somewhere on the forum, save/load should be stable now and sleeping is MUCH faster (industry standard speed). No idea about fast travel, except that it should be quite unusual and interesting.


#39

stalker disagrees with you. complex fully dynamic npc routines are not only absolutely amazing and noticeable by anyone with functioning neocortex, they have been around in stable form since at least a decade ago. if kingdom come is able to push the envelope even further, good on them.


#40

I don’t like fast travel at all and probably won’t use it a single time.
So honestly, I don’t care about fast travel related problems.

As for the rest - you can’t expect simplicity from Dan Vavra. He is a person who will try to do the best possible thing. In KC:D, the best possible thing is realism, that’s why @warhorse try to make everything as authentic as possible.

And no, I don’t feel sad about these routines. Except for skipping blacksmithing and delaying the game too much, I don’t have any complains against the devs. The first will probably be added at a later date, and the second will go away the moment they release a stable, bug-free and finished game.