Other things to polish

Gameplay
#1

As the polishing phase begins, there are many things which needs to be polished but are often overlooked.

Here’s a small list of things, which improvement would increase the game’s immersion a lot. All according to my experience, yet I have to say that I play from time to time but I look at all your videos, so some things are based from the video experience.

VERY IMPORTANT PLEASE READ FIRST: I really appreciate the effort @warhorse puts into the game, I also backed up this game for a reason and unlinke some others I did not asked for a refund, because I like this product and I believe that this game will be great upon the time it is release and if not after, then after two or three updates it probably will.

I have to admit that I really love immersion and suspension of disbelief. However, this DOES NOT imply that I only care about those things only. I also care about good gameplay in combination with immersion. Therefore many things may seem a little bit nitpicky but small things matter, I believe so and I think others also think this way.

Please see this thread also as a hotchpotch of future mod ideas if some of these things will not be polished regardless of the reason at the end of the game’s support time.

Maybe some of the points of the already know and maybe fixed. Again, I only have access to the BETA version and to the official videos. Therefore these are my only sources. Thus I may not know and please do not see this as an attack on you but as a fingerpoint to things, which would make the game visually and immersivly better.

I am also sorry that some points are described a little bit short. If wished, then I will elaborate further. I have a master degree in computer science and if wished, then I will went technical.

IMPORTANT: Please mind that I did not include things like AI, BUGS or GLITCHES because WH works on them and there is a dedicated thread for reporting bugs.

  1. Implementation of Scabbards. However judging from the latest video, this is a story on their JIRA board :wink:

  2. Implementation of Accoutrements. Shields are missing straps and are glued to the model and the quiver is also missing the strap.

  3. Bow is glued on the back. The way the bow is worn looks terribly. Just take a look at Tomb Raider: http://guides.gamepressure.com/tombraider2013/gfx/word/970238453.jpg to see that the bow can bew worn with the bowstring snaped to the chest.

  4. Broken arrows are not viusally broken! This is an immersive break, when something is described as broken it should be visibly broken in many stages :wink:

  5. Missing Dents on armor. The only hit indicator is this spark (Please add an option to disable this, Dents and scratches on armor would be far better)

  6. Swords do not bend when stirking on armor. You know this is missing, as you experimented yourself. Please add this :slight_smile:

  7. Missing small animations: When looting or putting something into the gulash animations are missing. Some generic animation would be really nice, the better way would be more complex animations but they could be delivered later.

  8. Missing NPC animation: Some actions are not animated e.g. Fireplaces are magically lit, seen at the inn in Talmberg.

  9. Lacking Blood System :The blood system seems a little bit bland and bold, there are no blood stains on the environment or little blood puddles, after killing an enemy. Moreover there are no wounds or bruises. It is important not to overdo blood, a realistic amount of blood is better than a gallon of it but, there is no interaction with the environment at all and no visiblity is also bad.

  10. Missing footsteps and interaction with the environment: There are not footsteps in the environment and the environment is often indestructible. This leads to the impression that the hero does not affect the environment. Another example, after stepping into horse dung the dung itself is not affected and the there are no footsteps but it should be, after all there at all.

  11. Fire has no effect: It is possbile to use a torch in thicktet without any reaction. It would seem that it could be possible to set fire but it is not :frowning:

  12. Arrow impacts disappear to soon: After firing an arrow into a wooden wall there is an impact hole. However, as soon as I grab the arrow back the impact disappear.

  13. Inifinte Torches: Some torches burn infinitely like the one at the tavern in Talmberg. Torches should burn some time and the like the used torch cease to burn, an NPC should the change to torch (animted) and lit it again!

  14. Completly unrealistic behaviour of NPCs after being hit: All NPC does not behave as expected after being hit. For example after hitting an unarmored civillian in the leg, the civillian still behaves as nothing had happend, which ic unrealistic and unbelieavabe. This applies to ALL enemies. Dedicated animations of different movements with hurt body parts (arms, legs, stomach) would improve the believability and the gameplay itself. As a direct hit in the head with a sharp sword does nothing! Sorry but this is not believeable.

  15. Fluids are static: Fluids could be rendered by the CryEngine letting them behave like fluids and not static as they are in the beta of course this would be a case for high or ultra high settings.

  16. Unrealistic sparks as hit indicator. As there will be dents in the armor/weapons and other visual markings of hit. Please add at least an option do disable the sparks as hit indicator when swords clash against each or against armor, as it looks more cheap than anything.

More to come

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When should I play the game?
#2

Supporting your ideas. alot of things are missing.

#3

I would like to add another observation of NPC behaviour. I saw in beta that when you engage multiple enemies, and then just continuously step backwards and shoot arrows they do not behave naturally. They just slowly advance toward you in a fencing posture without trying to sprint, encircle you as a group and knock you on the ground and beat the shit out of you, no they just slowly follow you and let themselves be killed. In reality when opponent would handle a bow during a melee fight he would not have much of a chance of surviving, not to say killing multiple enemies in armour…

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#4

Some of the things you mention were improved since the beta (NPC behavior, combat movement, Blood system, Armor dents…)

And other things are just not possible (fire has no effect, interaction with the environment)
Every item and asset cannot be interactive due to limitations of the engine and limitations of devices people will be playing at.

Also compared to Beta, the dev version has now lot more stuff (features, animations, items etc…) and more are yet in production.

I would also like to warn against overhype. We are making a realistic RPG, but that does not mean that we are making medieval or real life simulator.
So if you are only about immersion into medieval world, there will be things you wont like.

We are still making “just” a game.

#5

Is carrying body fixed ? I mean it will no longer drain stamina that fast, sometimes takes 3-4 times to move it a little further.

#6

Stamina depleting while carrying a corpse is dependent on your strength stat.
But the speed of depleting was overall slowed down.

#7

Even in the beta, if you’re not encumbered, and the body isn’t full of heavy items like armor, you can carry it around quite easily.

#8

In the beta it is possible to step into a fireplace, and get no damage.
Has this changed?

Solution1(not so good):
Make an invisible wall around every open fire (like in the forest).

Soulution2(better):
Everytime Henry steps into a fire, he makes an automatic step back, out of damage zone.(that´s the way in works in reallity)

Soulution3(best): :slight_smile:
Works like 2 but you can push NPC into a fire (or over a hillside/cliff) and they get aditional damage.

#9

Dont have any info about any upcoming changes to fires. Right now it is the same as in beta.

#10

Now everyone wants to kick/push/throw NPCs off walls. Make it happen.

#11

I think devs should focus on main features and later if it’s possible to make it they might do it.

#12

That is really nice to hear. But I only have access to the BETA version.

OK, I will went into this a lttle deeper. I am sorry that I did not elaborated this further before. Interactions with assets can be achieved in different states. Of course the higehst state would be a complete physical interaction with the asset but as you said this cannot be done due to limitations. I did not impled that. There are other states.

The most important interaction is the interaction in the field of view or possible field of view of the player. Every interaction outside the possible field of view can be neglected and done automatically. (Also an optimization potential)

The second state: Interaction by generating short lived 2D- Textures. An example: Henry steps into water, dirt, or dung, then he will leave footsteps

here is the pseudo-code if you like for footsteps [TimeInterval] is the amount of time henry will be able to create footsteps after steeping into different wet objects. The timeinterval also serves as a believeability factor, as after a certain time the shoes dry of and no footsteps will be generated. [LifetimeInSeconds] serves also the believeablilty as footsteps wears off.

if (PCHasCollisionWithFootstepGeneratingObject()){
while(time<[TimeInterval]){
if(!checkIfFootstepIsAtCurrentPosition()){
createFootstep([LifetimeInSeconds])}
}}

This example code can be also used for NPC in the possible field of visiblity, for other NPCs this can be neglected. Of course there could be other in-eninge ways to do this, which might be more performant.

The third state: Interaction by (partially) destructubible meshes. The CryEngine offers destructible meshes, which break after collision with other objects e.g. (sword slashes, arrows), footsteps [piles of dung, dirt]. With some tweaking even partial destruction can be achieved by the Engine itself.

The fourth state: Interaction by particle effects. By generting short lived particle effects also some interaction can be achieved for example. The female NPCs that swipes the floor can create an interaction by simply adding particle effects, which lives very short.

The fifth stage: Interaction with non-combat damage (visual): The PC or NPC takes damages with some visual indicator be it by a small animation (head bumping, stepping into fire, retreating and showing pain or by vomiting due to posion (can be combined with particle effects and short living 2D-textures this could look very good).

The sixth stage: Interaction with non-combat damage (non-visual): The PC or NPC just takes damage without any visual indictaor it is a form of interaction but the least immersive and the least favorable:

I can and will propose soultions for interactions if wished even more technical.

I am really happy to hear this :slight_smile:

I am not only into immersion but I think that gameplay should increase immersion and immersion should increase gameplay like the point with dragging bodies as an COMPLEMENTARY option to carrying them. As with interaction to the ground (sander marks) the player could create a false track and split enemy search groups, which create gameplay opportunities.

1 Like
#13

To tell the truth, I cant say why exactly there are not footsteps in the game… I can only guess (like ground being an ugly mess when all the NPCs would leave footsteps) @Vik would have to elaborate on that.

To be frank, I would consider this as a low priority feature. Right now there is a lot more other work to do.

#14

Bending swords would occur at one fps and you would not see it. I like the scabbards and bow ideas though.

#15

I don’t think so: Look at this video https://youtu.be/9WmVXjPhGgU?t=68 at 1:10 you see that the NPC stabs the other NPC in the armor and for more than 13 Frames the swords hits the armor of the opponent before it is pulled back. For this time period bending could be seen although it is only half- a second long :slight_smile:

Even small resonances like in 1:55 and 1:56 can be seen and the bending from the stab at 1:58.

Naturally this will be more visible when NPCs fights NPCs rather then PC vs NPC but if it is still there it will add to the feeling.

Personally speaking, this is the my most important desire :slight_smile:

#16

As an Archer: no, most of the time arrows break direktly behind the metal tip of the arrow, not somewhere else. Arrows can be broken without beeing broken visually, they just need to have a crack. Then they are very dangerous for the archer. Because the force is coming from the back and the arrow has to pass your bow hand. If the arrow has a not visible crack, it can break and pierce your hand. Be careful and always check your arrows, this is a common accident among archers. :wink:

2 Likes
#17

Now to write and implement all the functions. :slight_smile: That said I agree that footsteps would be a nice thing to have, but perhaps there could be issues with the weather system (gotta make them look nicely with wet/watered surfaces and all kinds of materials). And the dissapearance of them can look pretty weird in a lot of games. Also, possible performance hit? I noticed that some games generate them only for the player not the NPCs.

#18

Interessting, thanks for the information

But you see the cracks, so they are visually broken and when you do not see the crack then why does the game tell you the arrow is broken. It would be better if the game told that the arrow is used. According to your information it would be good if the following things would be in game (hopefully after release)

As players tend to reuse arrows, the arrows should be marked as used. In the menu there should be different stashes of arrows sorted by four quality groups

1: Heavily used arrows (which are used more than X times and are very likely to have those creaks)

2: Used arrows (which are used and tend to have creaks)

3: Slightly used arrows (used once or twice and very low chance of having creaks)

4: New arrows (new and mint, never used)

The player should be able to sell or to toss out those “bad” arrows and if he uses them again and again they should either break or burst during shooting and hurting the player. Of course there should be “broken” arrows, which are really broken, not so often but it should be visible, those arrows should not be pickable.

IMHO this would be really nice :slight_smile:

It would require some work but it really would be an interessting visual gimmick. Disappearance is a thing you’re right. The weather system (wind and rain could wash of footsteps on dry ground). Footsteps on wet ground is a different story and this would be IMHO more performance intensive than footsteps on dry ground. But this would be a nice mod possilibity neverthelss :slight_smile:

#19

@warhorse:

Could you give please us a status update on the little things :slight_smile:

#20

Sparks are realistic when swords clash. They’re just not as big and often as they happen in the game. Also they can be only seen in the dark:

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