PS4: RDR2 and KCD


did you have a change of heart, or is this rank hypocrisy?

W3 didn’t bother me. played at release on console.

others are off put by loading screens. for me, in game performance is more important than the delays associated with startup screen, cutscreen, sleeping clock animation, fast travel animation, load screen to different load zone, etc


get all that. Dan is the co-founder. WH is the studio. DS is the publisher. how they make good on the efforts is up to them. you want them to do a deep dive. i have no passion around that one way or another. my primary intent meanwhile is to hold them to the performance expectations set forth in their advert for this game:

• Massive realistic open world: Majestic castles, vast fields, all rendered in stunning high-end graphics

to achieve further advances in my ‘what’ (ie, bullet point above), WH may have to dig into the bowels of your ‘how’. fair enough but as things stood last time i played i was generally satisfied with KCD performance


so true

there’s a sentiment here among some to dismiss and denigrate especially relative to consoles and their users. it seems like some PC users want to put console users in their place even when the PC users don’t have a leg to stand on

as evidence, my explicit comments about money ( When one considers that KCD cost less than 1/50th of RDR2, one has to be impressed with what WH delivered; Where the $$$ is evident most is running away in Rattay vs St Denis) were ignored as i was critiqued for not acknowledging (the importance of) tons of money.


pretty much reflected in following from original post


I can see it from a pc owners perspective. The KCD may definitely have had to have some limitations because of consoles. Maybe the consoles did hold it back some.

But the fact is the game if it only released on pc, youd be taking an already neiche audience and shrinking it even further.the quality had to take a hit regardless. Was every pc owner going to have the type of pc to run the beta expanded version into a full game? When fully fleshed out.

Not enough time, not enough money, not enough staff, not enough revenue after releasing to even carry forward. Warhorse could well buried themselves.

Red dead is good fun. Ye hawww. Kingdom come is still a rough diamond.


i have zero doubt of this.

the larger question is whether one wants WH to be a boutique gamemaker or a potentially transcendent or transformative studio. imo, if one chooses the latter, then consoles should be targeted.

i mentioned Larian previously. nobody commented. Larian is about WH’s size. D:OS2 was released to console … what a full year after PC. it’s tight as f***. it has complexity (from player perspective) coming out of its ears, and it’s ranked (much) higher than KCD. (fwiw, it’s a great game just not for me.)

so, rather than saying KCD should’ve never been released on console (as some here have actually said), maybe the better strategy would’ve been to release console later. don’t know if DS forced WH’s hand to release console and PC in tandem. regardless, i hope the collective PC and console sales will permit WH to move forward as it sees fit … release to console and PC respectively per the time table they want.

the next game (if not the expansion) really should make good on more of the Kickstarter targets (warhorse NPCs, large scale battles, sandbox, more crafting, etc). Eventually Bannerlord will be competing for players affection. Teresa is sweet, Miller Peshek is a scream, and Henry is a dude on the rise, but they’ll progressively slip from memory if KCD doesn’t bring more to the table. to that end, really excited and hopeful for bastard, lady, the expansion and the last official dev phase of KCD.


Yes, Bethesda is lazy. From Oblivion to this moronic Fallout 76 they use the same engine with minor updates. It is so inferior to what we have today, it’s ridiculous. Not to mention their bad design choices, plot-holes, moronic quests, etc. And they have all the money and people.
Even Daniel Vavra talked about this. He bashed Bethesda heavily, there is a thread about that here.

And dude, you aren’t material for forums with all that insulting. Grown up.


Ohh I see, nowww you want to act all mature telling people to grow up… Dude… . Ha what happened to why would I listen to anyone who doesn’t know anything, stupid childish attitude.

You refunded KCD like a god damn grown up cry baby because the game changed from beta… throwing around ooh I’m a dev … do you know what the word beta means?? …Dude…

P.s I’d like to know Daniels view on whinging people who demanded refunds for his game because it didn’t look like the beta. But have the neck to criticize someone who paid for the game and stood by it after release, that are hoping for better optimisation in the town’s.

If anyone shouldn’t be on the forums, it is you who doesn’t even own the damn game.


This “dude” suits you.

I know what beta is, means. Also i have explained my position about that with a lot of good arguments. You can’t promise me something, and then in the final version release something completely different.
We can’t even modify the game because assets are encrypted. This is even more ridiculous, especially because it’s Cryengine for which is so easy to create mods.

What Daniel thinks about me? Well that’s his problem.


God, can’t we just agree that both Red Dead Redemption 2 and Kingdom Come Deliverance are two great games?

Both were made on a highly different budget, number of developers and experience in the world of gaming. You can’t seriously compare Warhorse Studios and Rockstar. RDR2 was made/developed on a 8 years span if I am not mistaken. That leaves plenty of time for console optimization.


I believe they are both great games. Never said otherwise.

Context is important to any comparison. Accordingly, I explicitly acknowledged the money difference. Once to heap praise upon WH. In some important areas, KCD has a definite edge over RDR2 even though it cost 1/50 the price

There’s an expression perhaps falsely attributed to Picasso: good artists borrow; great artists steal. It’s in this spirit I’ve compared RDR2 and KCD game elements. In at least one of the release videos, Daniel compares shared elements of GTA and Mafia.

Beyond the game play elements, there were claims about the limits of consoles which precluded Rattay race (riding at good pace from one gate to other whilst monitoring popins) from being considered as worthy of a patch performance qualification test. Moreover, there was notion floated that popins may/might have to be lived with among console users. KCD 1.7 have proven this wrong for this engine and this game (even if other trade offs made); and, RDR2 has further validated the notion that current consoles can handle (to quote KCD ad) stunning high-end graphics in a large open world RPG, rich with NPCs


My comment was not necessarily aiming at you Frelm, but mostly to everyone who replied to this topic. Point taken.


Mother of God, you are still going on about this?


Yes you can modify the game


Side note,
Thank you. That is true, Here we have maybe a proof for restricted upcoming tools. A lot of hints are present for that. Crytek is losing good developers due of her policy and this can be a reason for some FC2 or Dying Light orientaded tools. They are using not the same engine but this all is a typical procedure. Crysis series is and was the only title that gave the opportunity to create something that is more than KCD now allows. There is no title that has a same sandbox editor in the same engine.


A reply 10 days ago to someone else. What are you on about?


The decision to encrypt assets is not from Crytek. It’s from WH.


Yes i know.