Simple change, Headbob

which one of these you would prefer ?

Wait, so if we’re used to it why do you want it simulated in-game? Surely it would be more jarring to have an unconscious movement displayed so obviously? Your body twists as you walk, should that be simulated?

Head Bobbing and Eye Blinking are the new realism frontier!


I don’t think head bobing is a good way to go. In films i loose track of what is actually going on, it looks like the cameraman was doing Harlem shake while filming. Some ppl can get sick from watching shaking screen. You must be jumping to have bobing vision in real life. I cant imagine fencing with shaking vision.

wait - i would demand also nose hair! that was very common in middle age, right ?

Your head isn’t at the same height all the time.

Simple maths: Hypotenuse = sqrt(Cathetus² + Cathetus²)

example: 100 cm = sqrt( (92 cm)² + (40 cm)² )

Here’s a little sketch I made to illustrate this issue:

This is just an example! Of course, step length varies in real life, 0,4m is just to have some possible realistic value to calculate.
When you make a step you’re not at your full height.

If humans would move like a static sliding camera over the ground then why did they have to invent Steadicam, huh? :stuck_out_tongue:
Of course, if you’re sitting in a wheelchair then you don’t have any up and down movement. I’ve seen people with really extreme up and down body movement while walking. It’s not common, but it’s there.

In most games it’s an option, so no problem. You can turn it off if you like a static head sliding “realistically” over the ground, because it’s so REAL. It’s so real, like bloody screen so REAL!
In Painkiller you had a slider were you could determine how strong the effect should be, down to 0 (zero) when there wouldn’t be any head bobbing at all. I like to have some feedback when I move around in a game world. How else should I know I’m walking or just sliding down a slope, where’s the difference?
Also, head bob doesn’t necessarily mean your head has to go up and down in an extreme fashion. Some games (CS for example) move your arms up and down, left to right, in various degrees to simulate this. In CS1.6 it’s a bit too jerky. But the point is, with smooth and natural movement done right, you get a good feedback what you are doing. It’s not just some static place where you are at and you don’t feel like a camera floating in space.

Don’t you want to see some impact when you’re doing something in a game world? I need feedback, otherwise I feel separated from the game world. All I see here is just crushing and smashing and bashing, only assertions how wrong people are and how retarded people are and that they should see a doctor immediately. Template sentence: “Oh, yeah, it’s so real, you are so retarded, see a doctor asap!” There is no suggestion how to give feedback to the player, so he feels as a part of a game’s world. Just for a change, maybe you could share your ideas? Maybe this could be a real discussion then? Let’s see how “realistic” your “gameplay” solutions are.

Here’s another pic:

I read somewhere it’s not that extreme as people like to imagine.

What has that got to do with movement?

N O T H I N G !

Please stop jumping on the bandwagon and keep your idiotic straw man arguments to yourself. You add nothing valuable to the discussion while on the other hand you tell people they’re trolling! Yeah, very ironic.


We shared. The human brain and optical system do not present with this so-called “realistic” bobbing. Which means adding it strips some of the realism out. If you want to treat this as a prurient exercise in pure physics you’d have to include a massive blindspot. Because SO REAL!

Let’s not be silly about this. Head-bobbing has always been little more than an irritation for most, and a marked physical aggravation for some.

For the record, I run/cycle on a daily basis. If this enormously intrusive bobbing effect were part of my reality I’d likely be dead by now.

Your relative height changes as you move because your legs bend, not because your head bobs. It’s less than a centimetre on level ground for someone around 6 foot anyway.

Yeas, I got that part. :wink:

But I want to know, how you would think it would be achievable to have more life-like movement or feedback, so the player doesn’t feel separated instead of immersed? Please, tell me something about that. I want to feel being part of the world.

I know. But your head doesn’t stay at the same height. Have you got a hydraulic neck? Or have you got a system like a tank where the canon keeps on target when moving up and down hills? You are a cyborg? :smiley:

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No head bobbing? Because that’s far closer to the real world experience than the over-stated and cinema-bred shaky-cam silliness inherent in a feedback system that was never required?

[LIGHT or INCONSEQUENTIAL HUMOUR ALERT! Do not read if your constitution is feeling delicate!]
If it helps, we could hire a sweaty, un-bathed, Visigoth to clout [us] in the back of the head every few minutes with the flat of his tetanus infested bade of choice…

You might want to try it.

Yeah, I got it, it’s silly and many other things to you. No need to cram it in every sentence in every post. Can’t you write a neutral sentence just stating facts without adding ridiculing adjectives and nouns. Is this possible? The last sentence doesn’t add anything of value, it just shows that you don’t take me serious. I’m trying to have a conversation. I’ve read the thread, “No head bobbing” is your opinion right from post one. I got that already. The thing is, I can’t find any suggestion what you would like to see implemented instead of head bobbing. Because static camera position isn’t real as well.

Let me rephrase my question: How do you think it would be possible to achieve a more life-like movement which doesn’t feel static or like a camera floating in space? Are you able to come up with a serious answer this time?

Try what? Installing a neck which extends when I make a step, so my head would be at the same height when standing? (see sketch)
No, I don’t want to try that. :wink:

That’s not bobbing is it? Your head doesn’t move relative to your body when you walk other than the occasional vibration when your foot hits the ground hard. If you walk on level ground you’re height only changes by the angle between your legs at the apex of each pace and at a regular pace of 5km/h that would last roughly 0.3 seconds. You are seriously asking Warhorse to invest their time and effort into simulating that?

My ‘ironic’ parallel between implementation of ‘headbob’ and ‘hair nose’ was to point out its usefulness (from my personal point of view) - which i think would be very ‘limited’

As it was mentioned by Mr. Vavra - there are some limits for the ‘realistic’ game - and (again, from my point of view) headbob ( = hair nose) is over this limit.

Unfortunately - to back this personal point of view - i do not have some fancy pictures /lectures - just ‘gut feel’

I profloundly appologize if this indirect argumentation offended you in some way.

I turn off headbob in every game I came, because it makes me sick (Arma 2 was really bad, not sure how many people developing Arma 2 are doing Kingdom come). I’d suggest 3 options: Headbob with losing focus on non-center part of screen (most of games with headbob), or headbob done via seeing parts of person/equipment (even helmet) moving, or nothing moving at all like mentioned old games.

Go take a walk in regular pace. Do you notice head bob? If no, good, you passed the test. If yes, you should either seek medical help or overlook how you walk, as head bob isn’t there, except a tiny, tiny bit which almost everyone doesn’t even notice.

When running however I can agree that there should be some slight head bob, but not as much as it is in skyrim/battlefield/other similar games. Hopefully you can turn head bob off though, as it is mostly annoying and causing nausia for some.

There is a slight head bob while running, but I agree that it isn’t very realisticly implemented in battlefield/skyrim. I think that it should either be a very subtile effect in the game and with the posibility to turn it off. No head bob while walking though.

I very much agree with the OP. Heavy head bob (or even better, configurable head bob) and footstep sound matching the equipment you’re wearing is very immersive for me.

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So, people, basically all I wanted to say with my previous posts is, make it like in other 1st-person games: head bob is optional. It’s just a movement pattern which is repeated, nothing revolutionary, nothing fancy. So, no problem implementing it and as long as it’s optional, which is kind of a standard, no one gets hurt. Maybe it’s there already or planned (and thus calculated in the development costs), we, the non-devs, just don’t know it.

But as I mentioned in my other posts too, please stop to beat the dead horse “head bob” and let’s think of a solution for a more realistic movement. Head bob is not realistic, floating camera is not realistic.

Therefore: What could be implemented instead, so the player can “feel” the movement and more immersed?

That happens if the head’s position isn’t relative to the body:

That’s what I meant by the “hydraulic neck” which keeps the head at the same height all the time. It’s just a fun pic I made. :smiley:

I know this device. Some weeks ago I’ve watched this.

I was wondering immediately, how the fuck do you crouch?
When you crouch (if possible with this thing) the ring would be at chest level. I think, that’s very uncomfortable to play. And crouching is necessary in many stealth games or games where stealth is possible as a play style.

You seem to be misunderstanding. I’m saying the head stays in its relative position, your diagram shows a head maintaining its absolute position. And as I said before, when walking on a level surface your height from the ground only changes very slightly and for a very short period of time.
You are drawing your conclusions based on someone walking with completely flat feet, bending at the knees rather than the ankle in order to move. Seriously, try it. When you move one leg forward both legs stay fairly straight and you raise your back leg onto the front of your foot, bending your ankle, that keeps your absolute height pretty much exactly the same. The only change coming from the angle between your legs which isn’t much.