I very much agree with the OP. Heavy head bob (or even better, configurable head bob) and footstep sound matching the equipment you’re wearing is very immersive for me.
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So, people, basically all I wanted to say with my previous posts is, make it like in other 1st-person games: head bob is optional. It’s just a movement pattern which is repeated, nothing revolutionary, nothing fancy. So, no problem implementing it and as long as it’s optional, which is kind of a standard, no one gets hurt. Maybe it’s there already or planned (and thus calculated in the development costs), we, the non-devs, just don’t know it.
But as I mentioned in my other posts too, please stop to beat the dead horse “head bob” and let’s think of a solution for a more realistic movement. Head bob is not realistic, floating camera is not realistic.
Therefore: What could be implemented instead, so the player can “feel” the movement and more immersed?
That happens if the head’s position isn’t relative to the body:
That’s what I meant by the “hydraulic neck” which keeps the head at the same height all the time. It’s just a fun pic I made. 
I know this device. Some weeks ago I’ve watched this.
I was wondering immediately, how the fuck do you crouch?
When you crouch (if possible with this thing) the ring would be at chest level. I think, that’s very uncomfortable to play. And crouching is necessary in many stealth games or games where stealth is possible as a play style.
You seem to be misunderstanding. I’m saying the head stays in its relative position, your diagram shows a head maintaining its absolute position. And as I said before, when walking on a level surface your height from the ground only changes very slightly and for a very short period of time.
You are drawing your conclusions based on someone walking with completely flat feet, bending at the knees rather than the ankle in order to move. Seriously, try it. When you move one leg forward both legs stay fairly straight and you raise your back leg onto the front of your foot, bending your ankle, that keeps your absolute height pretty much exactly the same. The only change coming from the angle between your legs which isn’t much.
I apologize if I offended anyone as well. I’m not chastising this option, always welcome! It’s just the way the OP presented/requested the idea. Me and @David are naughty.
Because if you walk but you don’t feel the head bobing… WTF? is like cycling and not walking, is not realistic! I don’t want a head bob like a elefant real head bob, only a little head bob to have more realism, no more
(sorry for my english 
)
I’m sitting here and can’t get my hand off my forehead, I’m facepalming so hard I’m afraid I’ll dislocate a vertebra.
You all honestly want to tell me you don’t notice the vertical or lateral movement of you head and body while walking? And then you tell people to see a doctor?
That you don’t notice it most of the time is okay, but to claim the brain would compensate it completely, wow. So you don’t notice when you crouch or move a step sideways as well? Sounds like a stupid question, “Hey those movements are way more pronounced!” No they aren’t, at least not the sideways step. Your legs are about 10 to 20 cm apart in a normal stance and you are constantly shifting you weight from leg to leg while walking. You are swaying all the time, otherwise you’re marching goosestep, in which case you have increased vertical movement.
Look at @Cerberus second post in this thread again, do it, look at it! This is what actual facts look like, there is no discussion about it and it has nothing do do with bending you knee or anything!
You bend your legs to allow yourself to be pulled towards the gravitational well to then exploit this vector for forward movement by using a straight leg to catch yourself kind of like a pole vaulter does. What is true is that you use you arms to compensate most of the sway and also to let them swing forward to create some more forward force, which then again creates sway.
Now when you stood up to test the whole mystery of walking (which you hopefully did), did you even look at a fix-point or did you just say “Meh everything as usual, I don’t notice any crazy effect like in battlefield or call of duty or like in those shitty movies, which I don’t like anyway, so it can’t be a good thing or even realistic!”? … Because I have the feeling this kind of vehement rejection cannot come from objective observation.
Honestly, please excuse me for loosing my composure and my stash of exclamation marks but I didn’t see that many people insisting on something as crazy as walking on rails since public gatherings were invented.
I can imagine people feeling sway to be utterly unrealistic and discomforting when looking at a small screen or a screen in some distance where you see the movement in relation to the monitor frame, but I’d wager you wouldn’t notice the same movement when having you whole vision filled out by it.
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@David @fire
No problem guys. I didn’t feel offended but thought that too many reactions were over the top in this thread. All bashing at once on these poor guys (Don Patch and Gloock2).
I have to admit, I was surprised that you guys didn’t respond aggressively to my post but instead you’ve shown to be reasonable persons after all. Very rare to see something like this on the internet. And I know how tempting it is to jump on the bandwagon from time to time. It happens, everybody does it. So, no big deal. 
No, sorry, I think you mix things up. I stated right from the beginning that the head is moving along with your body, which means relatively. That’s my point. Mainly the legs are moving while body and head go up and down together (relatively). I tried to convey that your head hasn’t any absolute position with my “hydraulic neck” and tank examples.
Yes, I think bending is a bit overused in this case.
When you’re walking you don’t bend your knees that much, but when you’re running then you bend your knees, because running with fully stretched legs is not useful at all. It seems the faster you go the more you bend them. Also the bending means that your head movement is even more noticeable. Not what some guys here said, that you bend your knees while walking and that head height difference would be even smaller.
But as you said, people should try to run and keep their eyes focussed on a fixed point. Not that easy. Like shooting a rifle while running, not easy to hit your target. And of course it’s obvious your head is moving (together with your body), which is the main point we’re discussing here.
[quote=“Paladin, post:7, topic:15091, full:true”]
The arguments for head bobbing are, in a way, very similar to the arguments in favor of third person. Although they are not what we see in real life, …[/quote]
Sorry, I think, you are wrong. 
You don’t experience third person in real life but you can notice that your body and head are moving up and down while walking and even more so while running. 
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Let them go nuts, after 3 min you can see weapon attacks. Give us crazy head bobing!
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Yes I’m honestly saying I notice almost no “head bob” when I’m walking at a regular pace, neither when walking sideways or forward. I do notice it slightly when walking backwards, but it’s not as much as in games no. If I start walking faster/jogging/running there’s of course the “head bob” effect, but I feel it’s too much in games compared to reality. I for one did not state that it isn’t there though, except when walking.
When I brought this up the first time…someone hit me with a dose of logic by saying “The game doesn’t need to simulate blinking…because you already blink.”
I think they said something similar to me about breathing…
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Fair enough. I could, but it would mean the impact and degree of my amusement would be lost. The brain’s perception of reality doesn’t jump around following every tweak and twitch of a limb. We enjoy a smooth continuity unless we get sufficiently shaken up to break this flow. Adding in a fake bouncing/swaying motion is disruptive.
Yes. Yes we are. The effect is edited out. It has taken us a few million years to get this right. The fact that we’re faking it because “immersion” is both funny and sad.
Given that, in the normal course of events, your eyes and brain collude to edit the effect out, if you are aware of it, it must indicate some form of latent neurological condition. Ergo, seek professional medical assessment.
Following the exact same logic we would have to introduce blind spots, remove the bio-magickry of edge detection and lose the ability to change focus…
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Well it must be different for each person because I tried to notice today while walking and running at full speed and it’s not very noticeable, at all. I can detect some movement if I focus very hard on the edges instead of strait ahead. I saw a video the other day of Don Beebe (who was one of the fastest professional american football players) running at full speed with perfect form and his head was not noticeably moving up and down. It looked like it was sliding along with his body. Now I know that the head moves up and down some because my football helmet bounces if it’s not fastened correctly, but it does not effect my view in any way. Like @rustypup said(I don’t agree with everything), the effect is edited out by the brain and if you have lots of head-bobbing you either have a medical condition or just a bad gait.
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haha this is great. PS not offended by any comments what so ever every man has his own view of how the world works. love a good debate it grows us. OK but seriously people Stand up from you chair and walk until you are satisfied, just walk feel and observe how your head moves, if you are wise and discerning you will notice your entire body reacts to every movement, our head does sway side to side and our body moves in accordance as well, subtle and perfect, yes we don’t notice because our eyes are focused and our minds elsewhere, With a bobbing game the same applies, our eyes are focused and our minds elsewhere, it reacts naturally with real life. I said REALISTICLY not flipping shaky cam Bourne ultimatum, clover field style that’s just stupid. So go try now and and look deeper into what you experience, unless your a ghost and float in a perfectly straight line, your head will move, even if you try not to move your head, because of you walk it will still bob ever so slightly if you say it dose not you are blinded by your own arrogance. you don’t need diagrams to see this just yourself.
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There is no assertion being made that the head does not move. At issue is the fact that your brain does not perceive a staggered view of the movement. There is no bouncing/swaying/bobbing of the visual frame of reference for the same reason you don’t have a huge empty field in front of you… it is simply not there. It has been removed/compensated for by various physiological and autonomous neurological systems hard-wired into us.
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Exactly my dear friend but it is there, the same thing applies in game with our brains perceiving the movement as natural, you are spot on and I love you!
I think that because it is so small and unnoticeable in real life, it should be very small and unnoticeable in-game, I’m glad we are mostly agreeing though! Yeah, I noticed side-to-side but could not see any up and down. Of course, it’s a little different for each person.
Nope. It does not. Because we are not physical moving with a static image on a screen, the autonomous correction is bypassed and we end up with a thoroughly distorted image detached from our reality - hence the motion sickness reports. It’s unnatural and anti-immersive.
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