The EU and possible exits

Off-topic
#44

No such thing . How can a Frenchmen represent the values of the British population . And vice versa . Doesn’t work .

What clue would some from Belgium have about the troubles facings families in say Liverpool ?

[quote=“ProkyBrambora, post:42, topic:23403”]
Also do you believe that you would be happy if Britain were to vote for their ruler? Do you believe that majority of UK’s population would choose right leader?
[/quote] that’s up to the British public to decide who the best leader for them is . Not for someone outside of the UK to decide

[quote=“thiomay, post:43, topic:23403”]
exept that the left was only elected after a conservativ party had allready ruind the state
[/quote] other way round in the UK .

Labour (socialists ) wrecked the British economy , and were voted out and the conservatives are now in there second term. And the British economy is out growing every nation in the EU by a large amount . And is being predicted to be the fastest growing economy in the g7
No one in the UK trusts labour with the economy they totally wrecked it

[quote=“thiomay, post:43, topic:23403”]
You would rather be ruled by many relativly small corporation who aren’t accountable to the public.
[/quote]i want to be ruled by a British parliament accountable to the British people

#45

I am almost of mind to tell you that you Englishmen can secede if you want, but we are keeping Scotland, as they want to stay in EU.
I think that Britain needs EU more than EU needs Britain and lot of the reasons for British economic prosperity is based in EU.

1 Like
#46

You missed the point. But whatever.

You think that people in UK are bothered by different things than people in other EU countires? or even around the world.
I hardly doubt it. And if so it is because of system they live in and not their nationality.

People were bothered by the same problems even in the past.

What clue would some from Nw York have about the troubles facings families in say San Francisco ?
What clue would some from Bejing have about the troubles facings families in say Hon Kong ?
What clue would some from Prague have about the troubles facings families in say Ostrava?
What clue would some from London have about the troubles facings families in say Liverpool ?

What clue would some from ANYWHERE have about the troubles facings families in ANYWHERE ELSE ?

Answer is simple, because people who rule should not be fucking idiotic and ignorat cattle you take them for. (And which they probably are)
This is not matter of nationality but simple inteligence, will and compassion.

So you are saying that if UK’s people decide shit leader they can at least say “We vote it we eat it”.
That is nice but that is why democracy is stupid. It solves nothing, just represents majority of people whether they are stupid or smart.

2 Likes
#47

Haha doesn’t work like I’m afraid the UK is one nation , one people :slight_smile:

Ha in what way exactly ?

#48

Yes I do , every nation has different values/cultures and interests .

[quote=“ProkyBrambora, post:46, topic:23403”]
What clue would some from Nw York have about the troubles facings families in say San Francisco ?
[/quote] and that’s why the British system works by an area electing an MP who represents that area in parliament .

Every member of Parliament represents an area of the UK

[quote=“ProkyBrambora, post:46, topic:23403”]
So you are saying that if UK’s people decide shit leader they can at least say “We vote it we eat it”.
[/quote] yes exactly . People vote for who they feel represents there values . To you they may seem stupid but they,re our values and what we want

#49

What amaze me is suggest of big unions like EU is a socialist thing, because its not. Mainspring of EU is not socialist ideal, its capitalist. Look at history how EU is created, its main idea is an economic community. The privat marked is main incitement of EU, company are going more and more global and they want to have a closer easier market.
That has nothing to do with socialist ideas. The chase of greece is not about poor people, its about economy.

But its easy to say “if there is a problem, it must be a left socialist fault”, this does not solve any problems.

1 Like
#50

To understand anothers need you do not have to neccesary be from the same group.
Ofcourse it is better to be from similar environment but that does not mean from the same country.

People don’t know what is good for them.
If you told me earlier that you seek not bright future but degradation and ruin I would have not bothered you with my comments.

#51

Yes a economic Union not a political one , I’m all for a free market . Which would remain if we left or not in fact I want one set up in the commonwealth as it would open up the fastest growing market to us .

#52

economic in this scale is always political, the free market wish for consitent and fluid rules. Most of traveling is economic ones, make money not private holidays and visiting familymembers in other countries. Company are the first one who does want open borders. But if you have open borders, you need a shared justice. Marked want have standards like in education. Former we had diploma in germany, now we have bachelor and master because economy is not national anymore. And the Euro is there because of economic benefits, market is easier with one currency and less fluctuate trading rate.
The Euro is not born to pay for others debts, its done for better economy.
But all this changes also gain problems, and you can not solve this problems on national level because they are multinational problems. So collaboration in more and more topics is necessary.
EU is not a socialist community, this is pure Anti-EU propaganda to show that it must be a bad idea. Look how EU is done and what are rules of EU, its not about people its about market and economy.

3 Likes
#53

I don’t want open borders and neither does the vast vast majority of the British public .

This debate proves why the EU doesn’t work with the UK part of it . :slight_smile:
The UK is far more right wing and independent than the rest of Europe .
We also have oversea interests . Would you be willing to defend the Falklands with your life and fight for british interests ? No most likely not .

we have a monarch . We are a nation who are proud of our traditions and history for us to go all the way with Europe we would have to give all these up .
Give up everything so many died to build .

As for the euro it’s failed miserably and you simply can’t deny that .

The EU benefits the poor nations of europe yes , they get funding coming from british , german , french tax payers , but as a british tax payer what does Albania or Lithuania offer me in return ? nothing .

why should i help pay for a new sewer system in Luxembourg when the NHS is crumbling here under the strain of mass immigration .
or for spanish bull fighting ?

why should you be entitled to have free access to healthcare in the UK when you have never paid a penny into it ?

it is a soclialist set up in its current form . the rich nations paying for the poor nations . so the poor , take take and take but what do they have to give ? nothing

#54

this is just said…

#55

my all time favourite speech

you appear to have a very loathing for the concept of existing nation states …perhaps thats because your from Belgium …which is of course pretty much a non-country

get rkted

#56

Oh, I don´t say EU or euro is successful, I only said its not socialistic. And fight for oversea interests? Sure, better than fight for bavaria…
German soldiers fight in afghanistan for USA, what does we have to do with 9/11?
But military topics are not famous here in germany anymore… you know, history and such a thing. Here you maybe get insulted if you walk in public with uniform. Germans are not proud about their military.

And falklands itself are another topic, do you remember the early 80s? In 1979 There was a economic crisis and Margaret Thatcher promises to make it better, but she did even worse. The pound sterling had a huge inflation, the unemployment data was gruesomely, England riots and ecomomy was da desaster. For sure, Thatcher would lost the next election 1983, the newspaper were full of bad news, something has to change, and Thatcher had to go, no matter what!

Argentina had quite the same problem, thier country also had some bad times. Military junta was right on the way to lose control, and if dictators lost their power, they often lose their head. But they had a plan. If they can start an win a war, they would be the heroes.
Who would ask for a few problems if they gave Argentina a new confidence?
They could fight against the Brits, the falkslands were always a thorn in the side of the argentinian people, and the Brits surely would not fight about it. How silly. They had their own problems, and who would fight a war about some cold stones? They would be cheerful to lost the falklands, because they are more expensive than useful.
Argentina military junta let Thatcher know they want this island “back”, their “Malvinas”. That they want to go on this Island, and Thatcher did nothig. England don´t answer on argentinas inquiry, not a single word. Maybe they are really not interested? So… lets go!
There is nothing to lose anyway. Sounds like a good plan!

They occupy the island and don´t killed a single british soldier. One was injured, three argentinian soldiers died. They packed the british soldiers in a plane to bring them back to england, no prisoners either. The plan of argentinian military junta seems to be correct, all problems in their country were forgotten, they were the heroes.

But Thatcher, she also could need a litte victory. Newspapers full of bad news and now this! How shocking! There was only one way, strike back. This would even be a perfect distraction for their own situation in england. No newspaper would write about unemployment or inflation if there is a fucking war! So, lets go and throw this argentinians back from this island and… GOTCHA, UK wins!
Nobody doubts in Thatcher anymore, she had won a war. She must be the best prime minister of all time… besides Churchill, god bless him.
Mission accomplished! The war? Irrelevant, the victory of UK general election 1983, thats what this war was about, don´t let this lefty labours get on the throne!

And Argentina? Now that they had lost the war, and still blessed with an economical crisis in their country they were doomed! Military junta get crushed and the dictators had to go. They surprisingly don´t lose their head, but their power…

…its not about oversea areas, its about national politics

Yes, war over Falklands was a special war. I liked operation black buck the most. Eleven fuel planes to bomb one runway with one bomber? Only Brits can do such a funny Monty Python stuff, I love it! :laughing:

1 Like
#57

international terrorism affect every western nation .

[quote=“DrFusselpulli, post:56, topic:23403”]
Here you maybe get insulted if you walk in public with uniform. Germans are not proud about their military.
[/quote] thats shameful

[quote=“DrFusselpulli, post:56, topic:23403”]
And falklands itself are another topic, do you remember the early 80s? In 1979 There was a economic crisis and Margaret Thatcher promises to make it better, but she did even worse. The pound sterling had a huge inflation, the unemployment data was gruesomely, England riots and ecomomy was da desaster. For sure, Thatcher would lost the next election 1983, the newspaper were full of bad news, something has to change, and Thatcher had to go, no matter what!
[/quote] yes indeed . depending on where you lived .

for the north of england she was a disaster . ask any Londoner working during the 80’s and they will tell you they have never had so much money as they did then . had their own house , nice car , everyone was doing well in the south of england ,

[quote=“DrFusselpulli, post:56, topic:23403”]
…its not about oversea areas, its about national politics

Yes, war over Falklands was a special war. I liked operation black buck the most. Eleven fuel planes to bomb one runway with one bomber? Only Brits can do such a funny Monty Python stuff, I love it!
[/quote] the UK would react the same now as it did then . in fact its defences are tested yearly by special forces who routinely "invade " the island to test the defences . the same test that is carried out routinely on our nuclear submarine base Faslane

thats not politics thats principle . the people there want to be british , the land is british so we would defend it like it was a part of the mainland UK .

#58

There once was a guy with a silly beard who don´t like jews, and military had played a huge role in his life…

Yes, indeed. But there were enough chances to avoid this war even years before. England communicated: "Hey, we don´t care about this rocks, do whatever you want"
Argentinia started the war because they though england would do nothing, they were suprised. You know, they both were allies before, blue forces. Both uses same weapons (FN-Fal, M240, Gazelle helicopter) and they had the same allies. Both countries asked USA for help but their reaktion was: "are you stupid? Do whatever you want and don´t insult me, thanks!"
There was a diplomatic way, but to be honest… the really silly part was Argentina here, but they were desperate, and desperate people do desperate things… like helping greece to avoid euro-collapse.

#59

the good old vulcan bomber . my favourite story involving this bomber is the red flag at Nellis airforce base .

the Americans bragged that no bomber could ever get into the US unnoticed .
so the UK flew one into the US and down the grand canyon and was a surprise guest at a US airforce excersie “red flag” at Nellis air force base :slight_smile:

completely embarrassing the US military in the process as they flew right across the US and did not come up on a single radar until they announced their presents over Nellis AFB .
to make matters more embarrassing not a single US AA system was able to lock onto the planes as they were simply flying too low XD

they were miles ahead of their time . shame we dont have anything close in our arsenal anymore

1 Like
#60

why is that relevant ? when someone is prepared to die for you , you should show them the respect they deserve .

[quote=“DrFusselpulli, post:58, topic:23403”]
Yes, indeed. But there were enough chances to avoid this war even years before. England communicated: "Hey, we don´t care about this rocks, do whatever you want"Argentinia started the war because they though england would do nothing, they were suprised. You know, they both were allies before, blue forces. Both uses same weapons (FN-Fal, M240, Gazelle helicopter) and they had the same allies. Both countries asked USA for help but their reaktion was: "are you stupid? Do whatever you want and don´t insult me, thanks!"There was a diplomatic way, but to be honest… the really silly part was Argentina here, but they were desperate, and desperate people do desperate things… like helping greece to avoid euro-collapse.
[/quote] our response was quite simple "there is nothing to discuss they’re british "
argentina have no rightful claim to them , the people living there dont want to be part of argentina .
so our response remains the same as it was then

"there is nothing to discuss "

as a german (i think ) would you be willing to discuss the sovereignty of say Munich with Austria because its closer to Austria than it is to berlin ? its a ludicrous argument . and shouldnt even be entertained

#61

Everyone is afraid about other countries could think germany could start the next war.
Germany is well known for their evil wars, and also germans want to be loved too. :heart: so germans want to show they are against war and against their army.

I am with you the war was totally justified in my opinion, but Argentinia don´t understand it. It could be avoided with some clear statements, but england was quite silent. I think the war was not inoppertune to Thatcher, so wait for it and make it the Otto of Bismark way…
And Munich? Everytime, should this Austrians have their struggle with this Bavarians :laughing:

1 Like
#62

yea but you never win so its all good :slight_smile:

1 Like
#63

We do! The first one against France 1871, when Otto of Bismark insulted the french and make them starting a war. Germany (Prussia and Bavaria) wins and German Reich was born. Not so subtile like Thatchers war but I see similarities here. :wink:

And insulting the french should also be a british hobby, or am I wrong? :laughing:

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