The †roll Cave ®™

[SirWarriant]

Wait, i thought all western news sources were biased against Russia, and only spewed propaganda?

Russia always claims their shit is better than ours. Remember when they claimed the t-72 was far superior to the M60 Patton tank? They sold a bunch of the newest ones to Iraq, and when they got completely shit on by the Patton, it completely humiliated Russia, and hurt their reputation as arms dealers.

Russia’s good at showing off flashy new shit, but they haven’t tested any of it. I also highly doubt Russia will be able to afford these new planes, seeing how they can’t afford their new tank.

[ProkyBrambora]

Yea, I must agree with the guy.

[TheDivineInfidel]

What do you consider a civilized country? Running water, electricity, infrastructure, schools, hospitals, ect. The fact that countries don’t have the death penalty is retarded. Certain people are too dangerous to kept alive. There have been plenty of cases where murders escape or are let out, and the first thing they do is kill again.

No civilised nation condemns people to death outside of war . Who are you to decide who can live or die ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6231, topic:21032”]
Must work differently in the U.K. Good to see they let murders out of prison over there.
[/quote] yes . A life sentence here is 25 years . A murderer could be out In 15 if he shows sign of change . Everyone deserves a second chance . But thats depending on the person .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6233, topic:21032”]
Russia always claims their shit is better than ours. Remember when they claimed the t-72 was far superior to the M60 Patton tank? They sold a bunch of the newest ones to Iraq, and when they got completely shit on by the Patton, it completely humiliated Russia, and hurt their reputation as arms dealers.
[/quote].

You’re to childish sometimes when it comes to russia . You get too emotional . Relax a little .
It’s quite simple . Analysts have looked at both aircraft simply on paper and have come to the conclusion that the T-50 offers a real rival to the NATO next Generation jets .
No need to get all defence about it with a rod up your arse . You know as well as I do the f-35 is a potential shit heap a 1.5 trillion shit heap with each jet costing close and over (depending on model ) $100 million

The T-50 on paper looks to be superior in some area and equal in others . And it’s about $50 million cheaper for each jet . That creates a huge issue for us because many nations don’t have 100 billion to spend on defence a year . And more like 10-20 so they have to budget more , so many will opt for the T-50 should it live up to its expectations
.

Or in simple terms for you . Every 1 f-35 a nation buys they can buy two T-50’s .

[SirWarriant]

No civilised nation condemns people to death outside of war . Who are you to decide who can live or die ?

That is decided by due process. A jury decides that, and the judge sentences them.

Everyone deserves a second chance

No everyone does not. If you rob someone of their life, then you should pay with your own. You took someones chance to live and enjoy life. Why should you get the chance to enjoy yours?

You’re to childish sometimes when it comes to russia . You get too emotional

How am i getting emotional? I stated a fact, seriously get off Russia’s dick.

Analysts have looked at both aircraft simply on paper and have come to the conclusion that the T-50 offers a real rival to the NATO next Generation jets .

Yep and analysts said the T-72 was far superior to the Patton, but the Patton completely shit on it. The Russians also claimed their migs were superior to ours. They were so confident they gave a bunch to North Vietnam. And guess what when they went toe to toe with our fighters they got rekt.

You know as well as I do the f-35 is a potential shit heap a 1.5 trillion shit heap with each jet costing close and over (depending on model ) $100 million

Wasn’t denying this, and ive stated my opinions about the f-35 several times.

No need to get all defence about it with a rod up your arse

So because i compared one tank to another i have a rod up my “arse”?

The T-50 on paper looks to be superior in some area and equal in others . And it’s about $50 million cheaper for each jet .

Yep a lot of things look great on paper, the F-35 looked fantastic on paper, then they tested it and found out, that was shit.

Or in simple terms for you . Every 1 f-35 a nation buys they can buy two T-50’s .

Yep you’re right. Iraq bought two t-72s and t-60s for every Abrams we bought. That worked out great for them didn’t it?

Russia wont be able to afford all these new jets. Or did you miss the story @snejdarek linked about them not being able to afford a carrier or new tanks. But lemme guess, that’s western propaganda?

[TheDivineInfidel]

That is decided by due process. A jury decides that, and the judge sentences them

Who are they to condem someone to death ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6236, topic:21032”]
Yep and analysts said the T-72 was far superior to the Patton, but the Patton completely shit on it. The Russians also claimed their migs were superior to ours. They were so confident they gave a bunch to North Vietnam. And guess what when they went toe to toe with our fighters they got rekt
[/quote] in what way is that even relevant to the next generation aircraft ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6236, topic:21032”]
Russia wont be able to afford all these new jets. Or did you miss the story @snejdarek linked about them not being able to afford a carrier or new tanks. But lemme guess, that’s western propaganda?
[/quote]. How’s that relevant in selling a jet ? A nation pays for the jet to be built with some profit on top for russia .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6236, topic:21032”]
O
[/quote] correct . Which is why I’m keeping this purely on a paper basis as the T-50 is still in a early testing phase

[SirWarriant]

Who are they to condem someone to death ?

They are the law in this case.

in what way is that even relevant to the next generation aircraft ?

I was making a comparison. Russia always claims their tech is “far superior” to western tech, but when it actually gets into combat it gets shit on.

. How’s that relevant in selling a jet ? A nation pays for the jet to be built with some profit on top for russia .

Didn’t see that they were selling it. But the fact the are selling them off proves it’s probably not as good as they claim. China did the same thing, they modified the F-35 and sold it off to countries like Iran. They claimed it was better than any western fighter, yet they didn’t even use it for their own military.

correct . Which is why I’m keeping this purely on a paper basis as the T-50 is still in a early testing phase

Now you’re not lol, you’re always biased towards Russian equipment. I said its probably not as good as they say it as and you come back at me with this.

You get too emotional

Relax a little

f-35 is a potential shit heap

No need to get all defence about it with a rod up your arse

And then to top it off you have the balls to call me childish.

You’re to childish sometimes

I can’t say anything slightly negative about Russia with you losing your shit. I’m not anti Russian get that through your skull.

[Skoruligr]

Who are they to condem someone to death ?

Who are we to declare war? Why do you believe that civilized nations can fight in wars for the benefit of politicians, but putting down heinous criminals crosses the line?

Oh, right. Because the casualties of war are far from home and just a number to most people.

[TheDivineInfidel]

They are the law in this case

Who are the law makers to condem anyone to death ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6238, topic:21032”]
I was making a comparison. Russia always claims their tech is “far superior” to western tech, but when it actually gets into combat it gets shit on.
[/quote] you’re comparing miltary kit from the mid to late 20th century to new 21st century kit in production . How is a T-72 relevant to a next generation jet ? Russia isn’t saying anything .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6238, topic:21032”]
Didn’t see that they were selling it. But the fact the are selling them off proves it’s probably not as good as they claim.
[/quote] are you fucking retarderd ?!

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6238, topic:21032”]
Now you’re not lol, you’re always biased towards Russian equipment. I said its probably not as good as they say it as and you come back at me with this
[/quote] incorrect . I’m open minded

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6238, topic:21032”]
And then to top it off you have the balls to call me childish.
[/quote] you’re childish .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6238, topic:21032”]
I can’t say anything slightly negative about Russia with you losing your shit. I’m not anti Russian get that through your skull
[/quote] of course you can . Plenty of negatives on Russia . But it helps when you have a slight clue what your on about when it comes to criticising .

[SirWarriant]

you’re comparing miltary kit from the mid to late 20th century to new 21st century kit in production . How is a T-72 relevant to a next generation jet ? Russia isn’t saying anything .

No i’m comparing the way Russia was claiming their tech superior then, to the way they are claiming its superior now.

are you fucking retarderd ?!

Do you mean retarded*? Why would you give away your best tech to other countries?

incorrect . I’m open minded

No you’re not. You flip shit and fling your poo everywhere, if anyone criticizes Russia. Hell, i wasn’t even criticizing them. I just said their new jet is probably not as good as they’re claiming.

you’re childish .

k

of course you can . Plenty of negatives on Russia . But it helps when you have a slight clue what your on about when it comes to criticising .

What are you even talking about?

[SirWarriant]

Who are the law makers to condem anyone to death ?

Who are we to declare war? Why do you believe that civilized nations can fight in wars for the benefit of politicians, but putting down heinous criminals crosses the line?

Oh, right. Because the casualties of war are far from home and just a number to most people.

Read this. (20 chars)

The murders lost their right to live, when they made the choice to end someones life.

[SirWarriant]

Who are the law makers to condem anyone to death ?

Who are the law makers to sentence someone to prison?

Who are the police to shoot someone?

Who are the soldiers to shoot someone?

How retarded your argument sounds in a nut shell.

[TheDivineInfidel]

No i’m comparing the way Russia was claiming their tech superior then, to the way they are claiming its superior now.

But they are not claiming anything now ? These are independent analysts .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6241, topic:21032”]
Why would you give away your best tech to other countries?
[/quote] it’s called an export variant . Like we sold the challenger 2 too other nations .
The we are also selling the F-35 to other nations (which is what this entire debate was about in the first place as if you actually have read my first comment on the matter )

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6241, topic:21032”]
What are you even talking about?
[/quote] you talk a lot of bollocks of miltary matters in which you have zero knowledge . Apart from what you manage to scrape together on the Internet .

[TheDivineInfidel]

Who are the law makers to sentence someone to prison?

By sending someone to prison you are making them dwell on their crime and give them a chance to possibly come out of prison and start better life .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6243, topic:21032”]
Who are the police to shoot someone?

Who are the soldiers to shoot someone?
[/quote] because when a soldier or police officer chooses to kill its in a kill or be killed situation . A criminal locked up poses zero threat to you or anyone . No need to kill an individual which poses no threat . The same reason it’s illegal to kill an unarmed soldier in warfare or kill a POW

[SirWarriant]

But they are not claiming anything now ? These are independent analysts .

I’m sure Russia has claimed this. They’ve claimed the T-14 is superior to western tanks, they’ve claimed the T-90 is superior to western tanks.

(which is what this entire debate was about in the first place as if you actually have read my first comment on the matter )

No the debate started when i said the jet probably isn’t as good as they’re claiming. You then started insulting me.

you talk a lot of bollocks of miltary matters in which you have zero knowledge

Debunk what i said then, oh wait you can’t. You never directly challenged my argument. You just resorted to attacks, and bring up unrelated things.

[SirWarriant]

By sending someone to prison you are making them dwell on their crime and give them a chance to possibly come out of prison and start better life .

Why should they get that chance? Does the person they fucking murdered have that chance? They deprived someone of making a better life, why should they get to?

criminal locked up poses zero threat to you or anyone .

Bullshit, people get ganked in prison all the time. Also what happens if they get out? The first thing they usually do is murder someone else.

Why don’t you go to a mother or a father who lost their child to a murder, and tell them the person who took their child deserves a second chance.

[SirWarriant]

Wait, i thought all western news sources were biased against Russia, and only spewed propaganda?

Russia always claims their shit is better than ours. Remember when they claimed the t-72 was far superior to the M60 Patton tank? They sold a bunch of the newest ones to Iraq, and when they got completely shit on by the Patton, it completely humiliated Russia, and hurt their reputation as arms dealers.

Russia’s good at showing off flashy new shit, but they haven’t tested any of it. I also highly doubt Russia will be able to afford these new planes, seeing how they can’t afford their new tank.

@TheDivineInfidel respond to this, and prove me wrong if you can.

[TheDivineInfidel]

I’m sure Russia has claimed this. They’ve claimed the T-14 is superior to western tanks, they’ve claimed the T-90 is superior to western tanks.

can you provide evidence of a russian official claiming such things .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6246, topic:21032”]
No the debate started when i said the jet probably isn’t as good as they’re claiming. You then started insulting me.
[/quote] you responded to my point with a load of irrelevant crap about the T-72 .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6233, topic:21032”]
Russia’s good at showing off flashy new shit, but they haven’t tested any of it. I also highly doubt Russia will be able to afford these new planes, seeing how they can’t afford their new tank.
[/quote] then you added this which is also not true . putin has protected military spending from any cuts backs they have to make in response to the sanctions . the funds to both projects have been commited .

however like every project . the costs always end up higher and the politicians moan (the f-35 for example ) but never the less the project is seen through as the cancellation costs are normally more than the costs to finish the project.

The reason i accused you of being childish was because automatically you dismissed the jet and got on your american high horse of "we humiliated russia " which is irrelevant to the current situation of the modernization of the russian armed forces which DOES have the west interested and concerned .

Why? because as you are aware the soviets had a quantity of quality attitude through their reign . since putin has came into power however he has sought to change this . he has pledged a ton of cash in achieving this , as we are all aware the russian army needs a serious revamp . and we are beginning to see slowly parts of the russian military coming into the 21st century .
so when i looks at russia’s new kit i take it seriously . their new kit is offering a rival to our own and we have to be grown up about this and acknowledge russia is a force to be RESPECTED .

You do not offer that respect . instead you come at me with an argument along the lines of "well back in the 70’s we humiliated them , russia kit is all junk " that my dear boy is childish and ignorant .

so next time if you have a point to make , make a serious one with respect and relevant facts to the bit of kit in question .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6246, topic:21032”]
Debunk what i said then, oh wait you can’t. You never directly challenged my argument. You just resorted to attacks, and bring up unrelated things.
[/quote] you did not offer an argument to debunk in the first place . you offered a number of paragraphs of irrelevant crap .

[SirWarriant]

can you provide evidence of a russian official claiming such things .

No i cannot, but usually when them or China comes out with new tech, they brag about how it can easily defeat the U.S equivalent.

you responded to my point with a load of irrelevant crap about the T-72 .

No i responded to the article you posted. All i said was i doubt its as good as they are claiming. I then used the T-72 as an example. Everyone (including the Russians) said it was the best tank at the time. But when it actually got into combat, it was out matched by the M60 Patton.

then you added this which is also not true . putin has protected military spending from any cuts backs they have to make in response to the sanctions . the funds to both projects have been commited .

So you believe a western article only when its praising Russia? But if Russia is shown in a negative light its automatically propaganda.

The reason i accused you of being childish was because automatically you dismissed the jet and got on your american high horse of "we humiliated russia " which is irrelevant to the current situation of the modernization of the russian armed forces which DOES have the west interested and concerned .

I did not hardly dismiss the jet, i dismissed the notion that it could easily out fight all western fighters. Hence why i used the T-72 as an example.

Why? because as you are aware the soviets had a quantity of quality attitude through their reign . since putin has came into power however he has sought to change this . he has pledged a ton of cash in achieving this , as we are all aware the russian army needs a serious revamp . and we are beginning to see slowly parts of the russian military coming into the 21st century . so when i looks at russia’s new kit i take it seriously . their new kit is offering a rival to our own and we have to be grown up about this and acknowledge russia is a force to be RESPECTED

Wasn’t denying any of this.

You do not offer that respect . instead you come at me with an argument along the lines of "well back in the 70’s we humiliated them , russia kit is all junk " that my dear boy is childish and ignorant .

so next time if you have a point to make , make a serious one with respect and relevant facts to the bit of kit in question .

you did not offer an argument to debunk in the first place . you offered a number of paragraphs of irrelevant crap .

You’re clearly too stupid too see the comparison i made was completely valid.

russia kit is all junk

Never said, I said this jet was probably over hyped thats all, but you clearly can’t read.

You do not offer that respect

I don’t think i owe Russia or any other country for that matter my respect.

[SirWarriant]

I see Russian fanboys like you all over the internet.

“DEATH TO THE U.S THEY INVADED IRAQ”

“GO RUSSIA INAVDE UKRAINE”

“THE T-90 IS THE BEST TANK THE ABRAMS SUCKS”

“NATO IS EVIL”

" SPETNAZ IS THE BEST"

“VIETNAM AHAHA AMERICAN LOSERS”

" RUSSIA NEVER LOST IN AFGANISTAN"

" RUSSIA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY EVER"

I’m seeing a pattern with this Russian worship. The vast majority seem to be British.

Your phrases seem to match with the 50 cent brigade. I wonder. Do you work for the Kremlin?

[TheDivineInfidel]

No i cannot, but usually when them or China comes out with new tech, they brag about how it can easily defeat the U.S equivalent.

where . provide evidence of this .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
No i responded to the article you posted. All i said was i doubt its as good as they are claiming. I then used the T-72 as an example. Everyone (including the Russians) said it was the best tank at the time. But when it actually got into combat, it was out matched by the M60 Patton.
[/quote] how is that relevant to 21st century kit ?

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
So you believe a western article only when its praising Russia? But if Russia is shown in a negative light its automatically propaganda.
[/quote] of course not . when an article concentrates on only negative points its normally biased crap . but when a article looks at both positives , negatives and equals . its clear to see its a respectful and factual analysis of the bit of kit in question .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
I did not hardly dismiss the jet, i dismissed the notion that it could easily out fight all western fighters. Hence why i used the T-72 as an example.
[/quote] that notion didnt exist . no one said it could fight off this or that . .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
Wasn’t denying any of this.
[/quote] your attitude shows a lack of respect and a level of naivety.

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
You’re clearly too stupid too see the comparison i made was completely valid.
[/quote] in what way is it a factual argument to compare a tank to a multi-role fighter .

you cannot compare a pear to an orange to conclude that a banana is better than a melon .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
Never said, I said this jet was probably over hyped thats all, but you clearly can’t read.
[/quote] can you offer a factual argument as to how its over hyped ? no you cant .

[quote=“SirWarriant, post:6250, topic:21032”]
I don’t think i owe Russia or any other country for that matter my respect.
[/quote] then you were brought up wrong