The †roll Cave ®™

[TheDivineInfidel]

Russian fanboys like you all over the internet.

Your phrases seem to match with the 50 cent brigade. I wonder. Do you work for the Kremlin?

i find it amusing that an 18 year old child who’s mum breast milk is still wet on his upper lip has the stupidity to even dare attempt to flag me off as some russian "fan boy "

when i was your age i had already been serving my country for 2 years , when i was your age i had pledged my life that i would defend any NATO member who required military help . i have earned my right to criticise and offer an opinion where i wish to offer one .

the closest you have ever got to serving any sort of western ideals is call of duty . you have zero experience or knowledge . you speak big words for a little boy with little balls .

have a good Friday night . im sure you’re mummies little soldier.

now if you will excuse me i have a date tonight which i must get ready for .

[SirWarriant]

where . provide evidence of this .

They made a big long biased video towards the T-90, it should be on the military channel its called
"Russia reviews M1 Abrams"

On China state run media, they claimed in a “virtual test” they destroyed a Nimitz class aircraft carrier with their carrier killer missile, which turns out hasn’t been built yet…

how is that relevant to 21st century kit ?

You’re missing the point. I’m not comparing the actual kit. I’m comparing the attitudes of the situation.

The point i’m trying to make is the thing isn’t shit until its tested. The T-72 much like this jet was hyped up as being better than its western counterparts, when in reality it wasn’t.

See get it? I’m comparing the attitudes, not the actual equipment.

This jet could very well be the best, but we’ll never know until it actually goes toe to toe with one of ours.

of course not . when an article concentrates on only negative points its normally biased crap . but when a article looks at both positives , negatives and equals . its clear to see its a respectful and factual analysis of the bit of kit in question .

The article was mostly praising the jet. You’re so fucking biased. Had the article said, “Russia’s new jet behind NATO jets” you would have called it propaganda. But as long as Russia is portrayed in a positive light you’re happy.

your attitude shows a lack of respect and a level of naivety.

How? Explain?

in what way is it a factual argument to compare a tank to a multi-role fighter .

you cannot compare a pear to an orange to conclude that a banana is better than a melon .

Again you’re missing the point.

can you offer a factual argument as to how its over hyped ? no you cant .

Did you not see the part where i said “probably overhyped”?

then you were brought up wrong

Sorry, but i wasn’t taught to suck Russia’s dick like you clearly were.

[SirWarriant]

18 year old child

18 is when you’re an adult here.

when i was your age i had already been serving my country for 2 years , when i was your age i had pledged my life that i would defend any NATO member who required military help . i have earned my right to criticise and offer an opinion where i wish to offer one .

Hahaha so defensive. Maybe you really are paid by the Kremlin to spout Russian propaganda. Are the benefits good?

you speak big words

I’m sorry my words were to big for you to comprehend. I’ll use smaller ones next time.

who’s mum breast milk is still wet on his upper lip

Were you really still breast feeding at 18?

have a good Friday night

To you as well, go spend that hard earned money from the Kremlin

[SirWarriant]

That was not the kind of reaction i was expecting. Maybe a joke on your part about secretly working for the Kremlin. But boy was that unexpected. I think calling you a Russian agent and a Russian fan boy pissed you off more then me insulting the queen.

[McWonderBeast]

Certain people are too dangerous to kept alive.

There have been plenty of cases where murders escape or are let out, and the first thing they do is kill again.

Not all murders and not all murderers are the same.

Making the decision to take a life because said life took a life is a rationalization of fear.

Just because someone has killed someone does not guarantee they will kill again.

If you rob someone of their life, then you should pay with your own.

So if the punishment for killing is be killed, should the person or persons making the decision of taking the murderers life not be held to the same principle?

The murders lost their right to live, when they made the choice to end someones life.

The ends doesn’t justify the means.

Who are we to declare war?

We as a people do not vote to go to war. Politicians and lobbyists with private agendas meet behind closed doors and make those decisions to manifest their will.

This is something we have seen allot of throughout history.

Why do you believe that civilized nations can fight in wars for the benefit of politicians, but putting down heinous criminals crosses the line?

I understand this was not addressed to me but I feel a have a relevant response.

Many people do not feel war or murder is justified for any reason (why many ironically feel justified with the death penalty) but when it comes to war people are often sold on the false group, ideal, or foreign agenda that poses a threat to themselves and their country.

As long as lobbyists and politicians can convince people that there is threat to there safety and freedom war will continue.

War is justified by taking out a “threat” in recent history we have seen false flags events without our rose tinted glasses (911) and some see through the fear mongering at what agenda there truly is.

This is rationalization through fear. It isn’t justified but within the mind people compelled by fear rationalize illogical thoughts, concepts, and actions.

Patriotism + Fear = Easily swayed public mentality

By sending someone to prison you are making them dwell on their crime and give them a chance to possibly come out of prison and start better life .

Actually have too disagree here. While I do agree its more suitable to imprison then flat out kill someone our current imprisonment/attempts at rehabilitation are highly flawed and like our education system need a total overhaul.

Why should they get that chance?

So they may feel remorse, so they may be given an opportunity to comprehend and emphatically understand the suffering they have caused.

They deprived someone of making a better life, why should they get to?

Because people make mistakes.

Because killing that person will just add to the lump sum of tragedy, just because they made a horrible decision does not mean they don’t have families and the individuals in those families will not suffer from that loss.

Why don’t you go to a mother or a father who lost their child to a murder, and tell them the person who took their child deserves a second chance.

There have been some powerful examples of murder victims families opposing the death penalty. Here is a recent international one.

This is resource center chalked full of content about the mentality of Murder victims families if you scroll down you can see several books authored by people who either forgave the murderer or had a change of heart.

When motivated by love the Murderer is often spared, when motivated by hate, anger, and fear they always die.

The first thing they usually do is murder someone else.

This is not always the case, it a direct result a poorly managed prison and rehabilitation programs. Not ever person who kills becomes blood hungry murderers.

[McWonderBeast]

18 is when you’re an adult here.

Legally, not emotionally or in terms of maturity. Age is not a prerequisite for such things, however commonly dictate them.

[snejdarek]

@SirWarriant

On the death penalty: First of all, it makes government - any government - too powerful. No government should be that powerful.

Second of all, you start with death penalty and end up with extrajudicial killing - at least that is what is happening in US in the past decade. Any US citizen may be killed by the government on any day without trial. All they need to do is consider you a “terrorist”.

Thirdly, the rate of misconduct both during investigation as well as judicial proceedings is way too high. There is no taking back of a death penalty once a person was executed. Only if we look at your own country, the rate of “mistakes” is staggering.

FBI admits decades of forensic hair analysis evidence was wrong

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/causes-wrongful-convictions

@thedivineinfidel is completely right when he says that no civilised country executes people.

[SirWarriant]

So they may feel remorse, so they may be given an opportunity to comprehend and emphatically understand the suffering they have caused.

They’ll have plenty of opportunity to reflect on death row.

Because people make mistakes.

What is that teaching society if those people, are let out of prison in 20 years? That murder is okay as long as you’re “sorry” afterwards.

There have been some powerful examples of murder victims families opposing the death penalty. Here is a recent international one.

This is resource center chalked full of content about the mentality of Murder victims families if you scroll down you can see several books authored by people who either forgave the murderer or had a change of heart.

Good for them. How ever I’m willing to bet there are a lot of people who would feel differently.

This is not always the case

I never said it was, but it is the case a lot of the time.

First of all, it makes government - any government - too powerful. No government should be that powerful.

A jury decides if the person gets the death penalty. The jury is made up of citizens not government official’s.

at least that is what is happening in US in the past decade. Any US citizen may be killed by the government on any day without trial. All they need to do is consider you a “terrorist”.

Yes i don’t agree with that either. What i’m talking about is if someone intentionally murders another person. Especially if its a pre meditated murder.

Thirdly, the rate of misconduct both during investigation as well as judicial proceedings is way too high. There is no taking back of a death penalty once a person was executed. Only if we look at your own country, the rate of “mistakes” is staggering.

Lets back up. Those mistakes are not being made now a days, and if they are its extremely extremely rare. The cases being reviewed are for people who have been locked up for years and years. We didn’t have the technology back then that we do today, so that argument can be thrown out the window.

@thedivineinfidel is completely right when he says that no civilised country executes people.

I disagree. I think no civilised country lets murders out of prison after 20 years. The fact that the guy who murdered over 70 people in Norway is only serving a 20 year sentence is fucked up beyond belief.

The fact that i can blow someone’s brains out, in a European and only serve 20 years disturbs the hell out of me.

[SirWarriant]

@McWonderBeast @TheDivineInfidel

I’m extremely glad people with your view points were not part of the Nuremberg trials. The Nazis would be out in 20 years for their “second chance to reflect on what they did”.

[McWonderBeast]

What is that teaching society if those people, are let out of prison in 20 years? That murder is okay as long as you’re “sorry” afterwards.

No it will teach society that we do not condone murder period under any circumstance, “legal murder” is not justified.

Whats with this 20 years you keep throwing around? I never said anything about how long it takes for a person to be rehabilitated and governments that make pre-established rulings without consideration to the individual or case in question is moronic.

With our current system there are hundreds of murderers who have been given life sentences without possibility of parole, and those with the potential for parole or more often denied then accepted.

Good for them. How ever I’m willing to bet there are a lot of people who would feel differently.

I wasn’t arguing the fact that there are others that feel differently, the point is those who condemn another person to death are operating from a mentality of fear and anger.

Many only want the punishment as revenge. If you would have checked the resources I provided it had links to books written by people who felt very guilty and remorseful for condemning someone to death, even though that individual (in some cases brutally) killed someone they loved.

Lets back up. Those mistakes are not being made now a days, and if they are its extremely extremely rare

How naive are you? Human error will always be a factor, no matter how far technology advances.

[McWonderBeast]

BTW when you sit around wondering to yourself why @TheDivineInfidel called you childish its for comments like this one.

Comparing leaders of genocide to your average homicide is a low brow attempt to discredit our view.

As I have mentioned more then once on this subject each case needs to be dealt with on an individual basis, on the individual circumstance and evidence around that case.

There a is difference in mentality between a person who commits murder out of rage or emotional insatiability versus a predator or sociopath who seeks out and eliminates its prey.

Even Hitler the man behind the whole holocaust was a human being and his life had value.

You say your Christian, Hitler is one of gods creations did he make a mistake? It even states in the bible let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Every life serves a purpose under divine law, whether or not you capable of perceiving that purpose.

[SirWarriant]

Whats with this 20 years you keep throwing around?

20 years is the max length you can go to prison in places like Norway for any crime. Apparently this is also true in the U.K according to @TheDivineInfidel.

With our current system there are hundreds of murderers who have been given life sentences without possibility of parole, and those with the potential for parole or more often denied then accepted.

Good they shouldn’t get parole.

If you would have checked the resources I provided it had links to books written by people who felt very guilty and remorseful for condemning someone to death, even though that individual (in some cases brutally) killed someone they loved.

I did look at your links, i find those people foolish for actually wasting pity on someone who took their family member.

How naive are you? Human error will always be a factor, no matter how far technology advances.

I never said they don’t happen, of course they happen,like you said people make mistakes. I guess you didn’t read the part where i said they were extremely rare. When i said these mistakes aren’t being made today, i was referring to all of the people being released from death row.

BTW when you sit around wondering to yourself why @TheDivineInfidel called you childish its for comments like this one.

You clearly didn’t read our conversation. He called me childish because i said a Russian jet probably wasn’t as good as the media is saying it is. He then called me childish again because i jokingly accused him of being a paid internet troll for Russia.

He always resorts to personal attacks if Russia is slightly criticized.

As I have mentioned more then once on this subject each case needs to be dealt with on an individual basis, on the individual circumstance and evidence around that case.

I agree.

There a is difference in mentality between a person who commits murder out of rage or emotional insatiability versus a predator or sociopath who seeks out and eliminates its prey.

Yes yes, i agree. For instance if two people get in a fight and one kills the other without really thinking about it i don’t necessarily think they should get the death penalty.

It’s mainly serial killers, mass murders, that i believe should get the death penalty.

It even states in the bible let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It also states that you if your fellow man is doing wrong you should tell him, other wise you will share his fate.

I interpret it as this.

You cannot judge someone, if you are guilty of the same thing, or you’ve done something else just as bad. For instance it would be hypocritical of me to judge you for doing meth, while i did cocaine.

However ive not murdered anyone, or done something even close to as bad, so you cannot tell me i can’t judge a murderer.

[SirWarriant]

Ah look who’s back. @TheDivineInfidel have you cooled off from your earlier temper tantrum?

[TheDivineInfidel]

You cannot judge someone, if you are guilty of the same thing, or you’ve done something else just as bad. For instance it would be hypocritical of me to judge you for doing meth, while i did cocaine.

So how can you judge someone for killing if you kill him ?

[TheDivineInfidel]

Ah look who’s back. @TheDivineInfidel have you cooled off from your earlier temper tantrum?

Yes I’m doing well thank you . My
View still stands . You need to grow up . Get out of your house and educate yourself .

When you present an argument . Present it with relevant facts .

If you had come to me with a comment like

"I’m doubtful of the jet living up to its hype due to this , this and this . "
With relevant facts and statistics about the jet in question . You would get my full respect and we could have a grown up discussion .

Instead you come at me with a load of irrelevent rubbishing about a tank produced 40 years ago and throw your imature American high horse bollocks at me .

[SirWarriant]

So how can you judge someone for killing if you kill him ?

I wouldn’t be killing anyone. The prison executioner would.

Yes I’m doing well thank you . MyView still stands . You need to grow up . Get out of your house and educate yourself .

What about my comments were childish? I made a valid point, that Russian tech is often over hyped. You responded with insults, if anyone was acting immature it was you.

When you present an argument . Present it with relevant facts .

Follow your own advice, all you did was fling your poo and insult me.

Instead you come at me with a load of irrelevent rubbishing about a tank produced 40 years ago and throw your imature American high horse bollocks at me .

Once again you’ve shown you’re incapable of seeing my comparison.

A piece of Russian tech, the T-72 was really hyped up when it was first made. Everyone was saying it was superior to Western tank deigns. But when it went toe to toe in combat with a tank that was considered inferior. It failed.

Everyone is saying this new jet is fantastic and that it will easily match western fighters in combat.

The same thing was said about the T-72, but it failed.

The point i was trying to make , the point you missed, is don’t judge equipment until it is tested in combat. There is nothing childish about what i said, and you know this.

@McWonderBeast I suggest you go back and read our conversation before you like his posts.

[SirWarriant]

i find it amusing that an 18 year old child who’s mum breast milk is still wet on his upper lip has the stupidity to even dare attempt to flag me off as some russian "fan boy "

when i was your age i had already been serving my country for 2 years , when i was your age i had pledged my life that i would defend any NATO member who required military help . i have earned my right to criticise and offer an opinion where i wish to offer one .

the closest you have ever got to serving any sort of western ideals is call of duty . you have zero experience or knowledge . you speak big words for a little boy with little balls .

have a good Friday night . im sure you’re mummies little soldier.

now if you will excuse me i have a date tonight which i must get ready for .

I guess this is considered a grown up mature comment, by you fine gentlemen.

This is the comment that made him fly off the handle

I see Russian fanboys like you all over the internet.

Your phrases seem to match with the 50 cent brigade. I wonder. Do you work for the Kremlin?

So @TheDivineInfidel, who is a “grown up mature, experienced man” responds to a little joke of mine with a string of insults.

[McWonderBeast]

I suggest you go back and read our conversation before you like his posts.

You shouldn’t make uneducated suggestions it makes you look daft. I read every post made to this forum.

Also you don’t know whats going on in my mind don’t assume you know why I liked a post. (this is a display of immaturity, thought I would point that out considering its the core subject of this post)

I guess this is considered a grown up mature comment, by you fine gentlemen.

I never one insinuated that he was more mature or was behaving more maturely than you.

BTW when you sit around wondering to yourself why @TheDivineInfidel called you childish its for comments like this one.

He first called you childish in context to the Russia topic and then again later flat out said you were childish.

When I made the above post I was talking generally. I even made that very clear by saying “comments like this one”.

You very often are emotionally charged in your responses (evident by your rapid responses often faster then someone can read and comprehend it) and the defensive tone of most of your posts (making assumptions or claims of another persons opinions or beliefs.

You have a tendency to argue without providing any relevant evidence to claims, and do not acknowledge material presented by your opposition.

You often dismiss @TheDivineInfidel for using personal attacks but you sling around just as much dirt.

Very often a discussion with you ends by you declaring “im right you’re wrong” and any discussion further to the contrary is in vain. You seem to lack understanding of logical fallacies especially ad hominems (evident by your frequency to resort to using them).

It is not your age that is held against you, its your actions that solidify the childish perception.

[snejdarek]

A jury decides if the person gets the death penalty. The jury is made up of citizens not government official’s.

Yeah, but government indicts. The lack of click on the link provided suggests you didn’t bother to read what I wrote there.

If the FBI says that hair DNA links you to the murder, you are pretty much fucked. Meanwhile FBI acknowledged that past 20 years of their hair DNA sampling was complete bolony. Tell me how the jury helps you then.

What i’m talking about is if someone intentionally murders another person. Especially if its a pre meditated murder.

Couple of years ago I met a US attorney. He told me about the first case he got after graduating. A black guy, IQ around 60, sentenced by jury to death for killing two people during gas station robbery.

He tried to overturn the verdict and he was able to prove that:

• the police planted evidence
• the state appointed attorney that defended the guy in the original trial was sleeping during the trial
• the guy was in the vicinity, but was not at the gas station and was not physically and mentally able to commit the robbery the way it happened; moreover there were two perpetrators who committed the robbery and the police never even tried to look for the other guy. The cops liked him because he had a previous non-violent theft on him, no family to back him, and with IQ 60 no chance to really do anything about it.

Despite the aforementioned, he was unable to overturn the verdict. The main argument was that the black guy (wasn’t even 20 if I remember correctly) had his day in court and was found guilty by jury.

He watched him get killed by the government.

Please, get educated on cases of people who were found guilty by jury, killed by your government and later exonerated.

Lets back up. Those mistakes are not being made now a days, and if they are its extremely extremely rare.

It was last year that FBI acknowledged that their 20 years of hair DNA testing was bullshit.

We didn’t have the technology back then that we do today, so that argument can be thrown out the window.

What does that have to do with anything? So the fact that the technology is insufficient makes killing an innocent person OK?

The fact that the guy who murdered over 70 people in Norway is only serving a 20 year sentence is fucked up beyond belief.

I am there with you. Norway’s fucked.

[snejdarek]

I need to get more money and time and start with 3 gun competitions.

Václav Vinduška, 3rd place at Rocky Mountain 3G last week.