Not so, there was a case about a year ago in Texas, where some guy tried to shoot up a theatre. There was an off duty cop there carrying and she dropped the guy.
You’re very misinformed. Read the accounts of witnesses, the men took their time, because they knew they wouldn’t be facing an opposition for a long time. They were extremely calm about it as well.
They would have trouble picking out one person with a gun, of course they would see them once they started firing, so there is a chance someone could have gotten some shots off. If a person in there was able to find cover and trade fire with the fuckers, then they could have given people time to escape.
when you say theatre , what kind of event was it , its all relevant ,
the one is paris was more of a rave
people are shoulder to shoulder standing up . if you’re in the middle of that , you have 0 chance of turning around and firing any sort of accurate shot
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8847, topic:21032”]
They would have trouble picking out one person with a gun, of course they would see them once they started firing, so there is a chance someone could have gotten some shots off. If a person in there was able to find cover and trade fire with the fuckers, then they could have given people time to escape.
[/quote] not at all , if as you say everyone laid down , its not hard to see someone stay on their feet and reach for a gun . you’re living in a dream world if you think you have an ounce of a chance in that theatre in Paris .
the best way is to make sure these gunmen dont get the chance to carry out the attack in the first place , the french security services failed the french people , not their gun laws
Thats fine and all, but intelligence is not 100%. The government failed to act and people died, rapid heavily armed police response force, and an armed public is the best deterrent for an attack like this. Before you say" Well the U.S has armed police and armed citizens" the shootings happen in areas where citizens can not carry.
yes so leaving you standing up or on a knee ? you would be the first target as naturally their eyes would lock onto you .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8853, topic:21032”]
Again dark theatre, use your own logic. Also do they have to stand up all the way? And again like i said earlier
[/quote] you would have the same issues spotting them .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8853, topic:21032”]
If a person in there was able to find cover and trade fire with the fuckers, then they could have given people time to escape.
[/quote] with 2 magazines ? trade fire with two magazines . get real . one would engage you the other would carry on , in combat you fly through hundreds of rounds in no time at all , 2 magazines for a pistol wouldnt last long at all
Why would they lock onto over the hundred other people in the theatre? It’s called concealed carry they don’t have any idea who could be armed.
Are you serious? They were both firing full autos into the crowd. Unless you were blind, deaf and mentally retarded you are not going to miss them.
Fire at both of them then. If a person could have gotten surprise shots at one of them it could have taken one of the shooters out of the equation.
There was cover enough for people to be hiding in the building, and unless they moved some of the bodies it appears most did not die in that open area. That is definitely not 100 bodies.
You also always down play the effectiveness of pistols.
I’m pretty sure @snejdarek already linked the story of a Texas cop who killed an active shooter from over 104 yards away one handing his pistol and holding the reins of a horse in his other hand.
everyone drops , you dont , you reach for your gun . they would naturally lock to you .
if you walk into a room everyone hits the deck apart from one person . who would you naturally look at first ?who would you shoot first ? see my point ?
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8856, topic:21032”]
Are you serious? They were both firing full autos into the crowd. Unless you were blind, deaf and mentally retarded you are not going to miss them.
[/quote] yes im serious . the confusion and panic , loud bangs . you would be shocked and confused , now locate the target , it would take you some time .
your view of combat is very black and white , in reality , so many things are going on . its takes a while for you to slow it all down in your head and react in an effective manor .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8856, topic:21032”]
Fire at both of them then. If a person could have gotten surprise shots at one of them it could have taken one of the shooters out of the equation.
[/quote] how far do you think a magazine goes in combat ? you’ve seen to many films with the unlimited magazine capacity .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8856, topic:21032”]
If a person could have gotten surprise shots at one of them it could have taken one of the shooters out of the equation.
[/quote] both had vests on , surprise shot ? you’re shaking , scared and confused . this isnt a weekend on the range here . the chances of you hitting him first time are very very low . and if you did hit him , the chances of you killing him are also low .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8857, topic:21032”]
You also always down play the effectiveness of pistols
[/quote] because in a real fire fight with automatic weapons they’re fucking useless .
i believe i have told the story on here before about when i was shot in the chest with a Markov (had body armour on ) at pretty much point blank range . he lasted about 0.3 seconds after that before he was painted across the opposite wall by my colleagues behind me .
the only time i would of used my pistol in combat would of been to take my own life had the siltation come to me being captured or a complete desperate siltation at close range .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8857, topic:21032”]
I’m pretty sure @snejdarek already linked the story of a Texas cop who killed an active shooter from over 104 yards away one handing his pistol and holding the reins of a horse in his other hand.
[/quote] pretty baddass yes but very very very lucky . i bet if you asked him to do it again he would struggle
and you arent suppressing anything like you do in the military you are trying to fucking kill them which means you probably arent going to be wasting nearly as many shots as you think. along with that this looks like a pretty close quarters and someone moderately decent with a pistol could hit anyone in that auditorium. now looking at the fact that he would be fired back at i can imagine he would use probably all of the bullets in both magazines, but i dont think that he would have wasted them all and not hit shit.
you would be suppressing , you would have to suppress for you to have a chance to move to cover .
the difference in combat to hunting or shooting targets is , you’'re also trying to survive and trying to keep his head down so he doesnt get any well placed shots off at you .
you could hit them yes , but as easy as its for you to hit them they also can hit you even easier from their position which gives them an advantage straight off .
people pushing past you trying to escape , screaming . the idea you could calmly drop to one knee and put a round between his eyes is laughable .
the reality is you would run and fire off shots at their general direction until you had either escaped or in a better position to actually engage .
the only real cover there is behind that , what seems to be a pillar (black and silver ) directly across from where the photo was taken , or just to the right of the stair , there seems to be some objects stacked that you could get behind , but what they’re and how much protection they would really offer i cant tell from the photo .
assuming here you are in the middle of the dance floor
Take a look at the theatre, not everyone was on that dance floor, they could have been on the balcony concealed behind chairs, or down below off the dance floor.
I seriously doubt that, and again apply your own logic, they would really be the only ones standing up wouldn’t they be?
? I said a few surprise shots at the shooter, in what way does that imply that i think 1 magazine is a lot in a combat situation?
Well like i said, people have taken out active shooters before when they were completely caught off guard. They would have to hit their arms legs or heads, which yes would be a difficult shot but not an impossible shot.
He still did it, and he saved lives, and again if this is a place like the U.S or Czech Republic there is a chance that there are multiple CCers in the theatre.
And yet plenty of CCers have done that before in the past.
Again not everyone was on the dance floor, and based off how many bodies were on the dance floor, im willing to bet most people were killed else where in the theatre.
If someone was perhaps concealed behind one of the seats, or anything else in the theatre and the shooters didn’t notice them they could take one of them out before the other had time to notice.
7.62 would go through the chair quite easily . i dont think anyone was sitting on the chair , as it seems it was a rave , not a quite show , so the upstairs was likely closed and people dancing downstairs
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
or down below off the dance floor.
[/quote] which would give you the best chance , as i said if you’re coming out of the toilet , at the bar etc , you would have a much better chance .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
I seriously doubt that, and again apply your own logic, they would really be the only ones standing up wouldn’t they be?
[/quote] i am applying my logic and my experience of combat and being ambushed . there is a few seconds , which feels like years where you’re in effect dazed , then you go for cover , once in cover you assess where the shots are coming from .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
? I said a few surprise shots at the shooter, in what way does that imply that i think 1 magazine is a lot in a combat situation?
[/quote] that was reference to you saying shoot at both , you would have to suppress them to get into cover , unless they;'re next to eachother you wouldnt have enough rounds in a single magazine to suppress them .
it would only be when in some cover you would really be able to deliver accurate shots . i would suspect they would suppress then out manoeuvre you anyway so i doubt you would last long . massively out gunned .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
Well like i said, people have taken out active shooters before when they were completely caught off guard. They would have to hit their arms legs or heads, which yes would be a difficult shot but not an impossible shot.
[/quote] i never said impossible no , but very very unlikely . again they were likely much better conditions .
they picked there targets very well .
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
He still did it, and he saved lives, and again if this is a place like the U.S or Czech Republic there is a chance that there are multiple CCers in the theatre.
[/quote] a very small chance considering people there were getting drunk and partying . you wouldnt get many CCers in night clubs would you ? same type of environment.
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
And yet plenty of CCers have done that before in the past.
[/quote] example . to a similar situation
[quote=“SirWarriant, post:8862, topic:21032”]
Again not everyone was on the dance floor, and based off how many bodies were on the dance floor, im willing to bet most people were killed else where in the theatre.
[/quote] again most people were , dont forget some bodies have been removed , that picture has only surfaced today
In this situation, @thedivineinfidel is right that there is not much to do. Guns are not some magic talismans of safety.
Still, better to shit myself, shoot back and die, then shit myself and die.
The gun might even give you a sense of purpose and thus delay shitting yourself until after being dead.
That being said, there are countless situations in which a gun would make a difference. Having it or not having it may mean the whole world, as any rape victim or anyone who suffered a serious injury from hands of a sociopath may attest to.
I meant hide behind the chairs, not use them as cover from the bullets, then perhaps shoot one of them when they are distracted.
Well Garland, the cop wounded both of the men with his pistol despite them wearing body armor and spraying at him with Aks.
I already mentioned the theatre in Texas where the of duty cop shot the shooter. Then go to my state where CC was banned in the theatre where over 70 people were shot and 12 were killed.
