The †roll Cave ®™

Off-topic
#10114

Your main argument has been.
"China has a very modernized force, similar to the west"
complete nonsense, most of their tank force is made up of tanks from the 50s, the average solider gets very little training, and no one has any real experience, they spend very little money on the average solider, and they have no fucking JOINT COMMAND.

DOES THAT SOUND ANYTHING LIKE A FUCKING WESTERN MILITARY TO YOU???

And for the record, i NEVER said China wasn’t upgrading it’s military. I said that they were no were near NATO levels, and that is a fact.

#10115

@thedivineinfidel

It is as if the EU is trying to force you out. Is there a chance that the referendum would be sped up?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/suncolumnists/6878202/Kelvin-Mackenzie-says-vote-yes-if-you-want-migrants-to-come-to-Britain.html

#10116

It’s written into law (pretty sure it’s law ) that he HAS to hold it by the end of 2017 but he can hold it at anytime between now and then .

He was apparently hoping to hold it this summer but that’s in doubt as he is not getting his way in the negations (surprise suprise ) .

Plus the polls have now swung in the favour of brexit.

Word of advice . Don’t read the sun for anything other than funny headlines . It has a very bad reputation in the UK of being full of shit :slight_smile:

#10117

Could i possibly know the special idea? :smile:

#10118

Just as a last point .

I’m not arguing China is better than us or level with us or whatever my point is to get it through to you that taking on China would be no fucking walk in the park . Due to the points I have made .

Your earlier post sparking this gives the perception that you think taking on China would be similar to taking on Iraq …which is laughable . Hence my reaction .

You have not proven me wrong anywhere other than the Type 59 which as I said its very unlikely it would be used in a combat role . Other than a last resort .
You see the numbers of a force and nothing else .

Your view is at face value . So my " insult " to you is intended to point that out to you as being an immature view as the conditions and situations of war change entirely depending on the location and type of war as well as a nations ability to successfully support a large portion of their force in a combat role .

Such as South Korea who have a very modern and large military but lack the ability or balls to command it independently of the U.S .

#10119

I never fucking claimed you were, i was debating your point about China being close to NATO when it came to ground forces. You have provided zero evidence to back up this claim, and i have provided dozens of links proving how far behind China’s army really is.

I did, see MULTIPLE links proving that China’s army is a shit show.

What exactly does this have to do with maturity? It has nothing to do with it, you just love to pull the fucking age card even though you’re what? 10 years older than me? This has everything to do with research, something you CLEARLY have not done.

You are completely ignorant on China’s military. You see one fucking picture of some troops in modern uniforms and you actually think they’re a modern advanced force.

What the hell do you mean by them not having “the balls to use it”. Are you seriously suggesting that they wouldn’t defend their land from invasion unless the U.S told them to?

The bottom line is, China’s ground force which is what this conversation was originally about, is FAR behind the west, and if they were to engage us in say Vietnam or South Korea it is highly unlikely their ground forces would prevail.

The main thing they have been building up in recent years is their anti ship capabilities along with their air force. Experience aside their air force, and anti ship capabilities are good, and on par with NATO.

#10120

You lack reading comprehension then. All i did was state that China’s army is far behind NATO and comparable to Iraq’s because its quantity over quality. You responded by spouting off about a NATO invasion of China which was never even a thought in my mind.

If you put China’s army against NATO in a similar situation to the Gulf war, then the results would be the same. I never once said or implied that we could invade China, I’m not stupid despite what you think.

#10121

When did I mention age ?

#10122

No . What I’m saying is the US is interlinked into the command structure of the South Korean military if you read my link .

In times of war on the Korean mainland South Korea hands over operations control of its military to the US .

As it says it’s self it does not have the ability to effectively do so its self . If you read my quote again you would know what I was referring to.

If as It seems you are to lazy to read my source . I’ll sum the source up .

Since the Korean War the us has maintained operational control over South Korean armed forces in the event of an attack upon it . (Mainly from the north ) they were due to hand this control over last year . South Korea didn’t want this as South Korea say they currently don’t have the ability to effectively control its own miltary in terms of command structure , intelligence and missile defence so it wanted it put back to 2020.

This is the force you think could support 2,500 tanks plus all the rest of its miltary in battle . But hey you know best :wink:

#10123

Not to mention that the moment China is entered, Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania, probably also Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia cease to exist.

#10124

They wouldn’t need 2,500 tanks to fight off an invasion. China has only 600 tanks that are possibly capable of taking on Abram’s, and Panthers. It’s unlikely they would send all of them if an invasion were to occur. So i repeat Chinese ground forces would lose quite badly to a U.S/ South Korean coalition. North Korea’s army is absolute shit, and would be little more than cannon fodder.

I simply brought up the number of tanks South Korea to show that they have more modernized tanks than China does. And if they were invaded i would think they would be able to get quite a few up in running, seeing how their very survival depended on it.

China hardly has the ability to control it’s own military, seeing how they have no joint command and zero combat experience.

#10125

The only person who mentioned invading China was @TheDivineInfidel.

I highly doubt Russia would intervene in war between China and the U.S and most of Asia. Russia and China are friendly, but not as friendly as you might think. They have a history of border clashes, and they nearly went to war during the late 80s. So no i do not think Russia would use this as a chance to leap at Europe, the U.S would still have the usual number of troops stationed over there, because a war in Asia would largely be a naval conflict.

I could see Russia supplying China, and possibly sending advisor’s, but that’s about it. China would wouldn’t Russia to enter the war, because then it would most likely get NATO involved.

#10126

They lack experience is their biggest issue alongside their training being too classroom based .

They’re currently creating a central joint command but it’s a work in progress still yes .

South Korea standing on its own is not that capable . They certainly look it on the surface but in reality they’re depend hugely on the US .

I doubt Russia would get involved . Any conflict involving China would likely remain regional and follow a similar course to Ukraine unless something massive happened like China invading Japan . Which is not going to happen .

Even if the north attacked the south I doubt China would get involved any further than politically .

#10127

I’m sceptical of this, they could just be saying that to keep us in the region, because they know it keeps the North and China deterred.

No, but something that is very possible is China making massive strikes at us and our allies in the South China sea, and the disputed islands. China believes war with the U.S is inevitable, because they want control of the region and we are preventing them from doing that.

#10128

This is partially true yes . Because of this they have never devopled the needed structure to run it themselves so it’s a bit of can’t and won’t .

They claim they will be ready to take control in 2020 but we will see [quote=“SirWarriant, post:10127, topic:21032”]
No, but something that is very possible is China making massive strikes at us and our allies in the South China sea, and the disputed islands. China believes war with the U.S is inevitable, because they want control of the region and we are preventing them from doing that.
[/quote]. China won’t start a war . They will continue doing what they’re doing and push their luck if they’re attacked they will no doubt fight back and then they look the defender .

They’re smarter than to out right strike another nuclear super power and so is the US .

If it’s started it will be started by a smaller nation I feel .

#10129

In their mind, it wouldn’t be intervention into THAT war, they would just use power vaccuum to sweep in and bet on that once China is done, there will be no will for open war over the Eastern Europe.

Putin has said it many times that his main goal is reverting what has happened after the fall of communism.

#10130

Hmm… okay, why not. But keep it a secret like this threat… :wink:
You are here in the forum are first ones. We want to have a bigger coverage of the game in the media. For that reason we will meet with a lot of media people in the next month to show them the beta. They will have fresh news, because they will have a news embargo, and we will have some more time to fix some bugs. Two days before the release of the embargo, the beta will end, and all the media we contacted will have their story about the new beta, coming soon.
For that reason, we know this time exactly when the beta will be published. But I am not sure if I can talk about this date. Maybe it is part of the embargo, and for that reason, part of the news for the media.

So, some special news for the The †roll Cave ®™ only. This here is an exclusive club :wink:

3 Likes
#10131

You have taken that way out of context . He is talking about the Yeltsin years which were an complete disaster for Russia and its people and the country was run by the oligarchs for many years .

In no way shape or form is that him saying he wants to resurrect the Soviet Union .

Ultimately he is right the over night fall of the Soviet Union was one of humanities biggest disasters . In the ideal world you dismantle such an institution gradually over time . Like we would do if we leave the EU .

Even from a western point of view it was disastrous as it led to many moments of uncertainty .

NATO was always able to work out the soviets next move but during that period of collapse they did not have a clue because not even the Russians had a clue of what tomorrow would bring .

#10132

@McWonderBeast

must be some good stuff haha

I have a question/after a bit of advice and I thought here would be a good place to ask… I have a friend who is addicted to weed (between her and her partner they smoke about £50-60 a day), today she has messaged my partner saying she’s really depressed, she’s crying down the phone saying her hair is falling out and she’s been hearing voices, being sick, apparantly she’s just been staring at the walls with tears streaming down her face, she’s been addicted to weed heavily for around 5 years and she’s getting worse, her temper is awful, she sells all the items out her house including her kids things to get drug money, they have people round every day who get stoned with them and these people are on harder stuff, she seems to have lost all feeling for her family, my question is do you think she could be on something else that she hasn’t told us about? I’m not very clued up on drugs but I know a lot of people who smoke weed and they don’t have any of these problems. I’ve never seen her in the state she’s in today. Sorry for the long post.

#10133

Not ressurect Soviet Union the way it was, but ressurect the Russian state within the Soviet Union borders.

“Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and co-patriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself.”

When the Soviet Union began splitting apart in 1991,“millions of people went to bed in one country and awoke in different ones, overnight becoming ethnic minorities in former union republics, while the Russian nation became one of the biggest, if not the biggest ethnic group in the world to be divided by borders,” Putin said in March at a solemn Kremlin ceremony as he annexed Crimea. He said Russia would never again forsake its ethnic brethren.

This is EXACTLY the same rhetoric as Germany’s/Hitler’s in 1938. If you not see it, you should fill out your Chamberlain Fan Club card.

Sitting in London, someone might think it does not concern you where exactly Russian border starts. In such a case you need to realize that far right parties all around Europe are currently being financed by Moscow. Hopefully the godfather will run out of money soon enough and we can go back to the time of not worrying about Russia.

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